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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:56 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
The problem was imho not likely to be just a frozen main pin -- you will notice that even with the extended weight of the cut section of rod, the big end is pointed up at a somewhat 'unnatural' angle.

What this is beginning to suggest: The locomotive had to be moved, and no amount of cajoling could break it loose. So they cut the main in front, so it would hang down but not quite foul the ground. If the main pin was then frozen, the long rear section of cut rod would revolve with the wheels, until it came close to the ground -- that would account for its being cut off to the unusual length that it is.

For a cosmetic restoration, which I keep hearing is the only likely thing -- it should be childishly simple to forge up a simple rectangular bar, weld it to the pieces at both ends, and grind down the beads. How long could that take? (And has anyone asked to recover the 'piece of historic fabric' that is probably lying on the ground where the engine was stored...)

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
As far as being a "rustbucket," I now remember joking at one of the rare "open houses" for the Mt. Union Connecting RR during an EBT Fall Spectacular weekend that they should just leave the doors open overnight so the graffiti artists could save them the cost of a coat of preservative paint...... MAN, was it bad. Think "The Lost Engines of Roanoke" only seaside......


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Posts: 152
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
As far as being a "rustbucket," I now remember joking at one of the rare "open houses" for the Mt. Union Connecting RR during an EBT Fall Spectacular weekend that they should just leave the doors open overnight so the graffiti artists could save them the cost of a coat of preservative paint...... MAN, was it bad. Think "The Lost Engines of Roanoke" only seaside......

Back in the late 80s, we shoved a camera in the door and took pictures.
What we got developed, was depressing. I'm old enough to see the lost engines during the nhrs convention, I was surprised #3 looked that bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:58 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
Overmod wrote:
What this is beginning to suggest: The locomotive had to be moved, and no amount of cajoling could break it loose.
Still, given some basic tools (steam engine tools that is), I'm pretty confident that with a couple of hours of profanity, that I or most any other competent steam engine mechanic with a couple of helpers, could have disassembled it intact.

A split brass big end is always able to be removed from its pin, since by design the clearance on the pin can be increased infinitely. Regarding the wrist pin, looking at the photos of the intact engine, it looked to be clear of the side rod, so it could be removed. It looks like they did take the nuts off the wrist pin, so all it needed was to be driven out of its taper fits.

I wish they would have asked someone, and if they did, shame on the competent person who blew them off.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Kelly Anderson wrote:
I'm pretty confident that with a couple of hours of profanity, that I or most any other competent steam engine mechanic with a couple of helpers, could have disassembled it intact.


Of course. Heck, even I could probably look up the process in the textbooks and manuals I have here.

Now tell me how you find "competent steam locomotive mechanics" in the 2023 equivalent of the "Yellow Pages" of old. Seriously, if you or Sir Moedinger ever showed up on a revived "What's My Line?" game show, you'd clean up.

In theory, of course, if we actually had "benevolent dictators" in charge of rail preservation, no one could even have acquired EBT 3 or 6, or the northernmost section of the EBT even, without having at his disposal a choice of such individuals.

The fact that the apparent new "custodians" of this loco don't seem to have access to such consultation, or chose not to seek it out, is why I fear this will end up hanging from a casino ceiling, or mounted with monkey bars in some amusement park or the like.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Pennsylvania
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The fact that the apparent new "custodians" of this loco don't seem to have access to such consultation, or chose not to seek it out, is why I fear this will end up hanging from a casino ceiling, or mounted with monkey bars in some amusement park or the like.


I've heard rumors on Facebook it's going to Florida. As to where in Florida, I have no clue.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:35 pm
Posts: 44
It would seem there are some fairly competent steam mechanics just down the road a few miles. I bet someone would have helped if asked.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 70
for real, its not like they are in the middle of no where. like my god are they blind to the EBT rebirth down the road. literally all they had to do was drive down the road and ask someone at EBT.

I think they just didn't care to, it's so easy if they had wanted to ask for help or advice etc, that that is the only logical choice. hopefully I am wrong, but I do not see good things in the future for the 0-6-0 based on this. Who ever did the work should be massively humiliated over it, and hopefully wont have the opportunity to touch another steam locomotive with this torch...


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
o484 wrote:
I've heard rumors on Facebook it's going to Florida.
If the lagging is still present under the jacket, it may not be going anywhere. If I understand correctly, truckers are not allowed to haul equipment with asbestos potentially leaking while on the road, and can get into big trouble if caught.

Then I suppose that what the trucker doesn't know can't hurt him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
I generally believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, but wow.

It would be a damn crying shame to have it dressed up like this and shipped off to Florida with all the incredible stuff going on just a few miles south.

I also disagree with anyone about the paint job. It looks like a classic 70s "tourist railroad" abomination but without the benefit of nostalgia.

What a damned shame.

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Posts: 152
How could they not know they could find people who could have done the job right, just down 522? And would likely not have charged much. It makes me wonder who in florida bought it?


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:38 pm
Posts: 52
Overmod wrote:

For a cosmetic restoration, which I keep hearing is the only likely thing -- it should be childishly simple to forge up a simple rectangular bar, weld it to the pieces at both ends, and grind down the beads. How long could that take? (And has anyone asked to recover the 'piece of historic fabric' that is probably lying on the ground where the engine was stored...)

For a cosmetic restoration there is no need to forge a rod and then weld on it. A forging develops a grain pattern that is stronger than a rolled piece. Welding returns the grain to random. If it's cosmetic, just use a piece of bar stock. Now of course one must wonder what other butchery went on.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Posts: 152
tdmidget wrote:
Overmod wrote:

For a cosmetic restoration, which I keep hearing is the only likely thing -- it should be childishly simple to forge up a simple rectangular bar, weld it to the pieces at both ends, and grind down the beads. How long could that take? (And has anyone asked to recover the 'piece of historic fabric' that is probably lying on the ground where the engine was stored...)

For a cosmetic restoration there is no need to forge a rod and then weld on it. A forging develops a grain pattern that is stronger than a rolled piece. Welding returns the grain to random. If it's cosmetic, just use a piece of bar stock. Now of course one must wonder what other butchery went on.


How was the asbestos removed?


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:14 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
I meant 'fprged' as in worked to correct cross-section dimensions, not to improve the grain structure. Didn't I say that I presumed a cosmetic restoration?

Kelly and others have pointed out that even functioning rods cam be machined from suitable stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1027
met1533 wrote:
I bet someone would have helped if asked.

Counterpoint: Aesop's fable about the boy who cried wolf.

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