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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 8:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1936
Location: New Franklin, OH
PMC wrote:
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/turmoil-continues-at-wilmington-western/
I am curious about the "Board of Directors" referenced here and elsewhere- who elects them? The BoD model has worked for other organizations, preventing (to extents) established cliques of "good ol' boys" from running the entity in their own interests. Is that not working here? If they were fairly elected, is this just sour grapes? (I honestly do not know, I am simply curious).

Dunno how WW works, but we utilize a nomination committee to find and nominate candidates. Then the membership votes on who fills those BoD positions. This is on an annual basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 10:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1710
The voting and the BOD thing usually has some issues.

Typically it's something like this...

Possible Board members are selected by comittee. Each year 2 members are elected or re-elected and the membership gets to vote yes or no on the elections at the annual meeting. Since the majority of members don't know the individuals being elected or the internal issues, good or bad, most members will vote yes.

So it's usually pretty easy for the "good boys" to keep the people they want on the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:16 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1174
Location: B'more Maryland
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
The voting and the BOD thing usually has some issues.

Typically it's something like this...

Possible Board members are selected by comittee. Each year 2 members are elected or re-elected and the membership gets to vote yes or no on the elections at the annual meeting. Since the majority of members don't know the individuals being elected or the internal issues, good or bad, most members will vote yes.

So it's usually pretty easy for the "good boys" to keep the people they want on the board.


Yeah, nominating committees seem like a bad idea. Open membership nominations are key to preventing autocracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 1:31 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Bucks County, PA
jayrod wrote:
PMC wrote:
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/turmoil-continues-at-wilmington-western/
I am curious about the "Board of Directors" referenced here and elsewhere- who elects them? The BoD model has worked for other organizations, preventing (to extents) established cliques of "good ol' boys" from running the entity in their own interests. Is that not working here? If they were fairly elected, is this just sour grapes? (I honestly do not know, I am simply curious).

Dunno how WW works, but we utilize a nomination committee to find and nominate candidates. Then the membership votes on who fills those BoD positions. This is on an annual basis.


How W&W works now - as per the now-deleted post from "birdman": "The board is a bunch of cronies that changed the by-laws eliminating the membership's ability to elect the board, totally without input from the membership. They have an iron clad lock on the organization and dozens of hard-working volunteers have left."

So - no board elections, the same people are in charge until they decide to step down/resign/hold elections again.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2025 3:11 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Bucks County, PA
Word from multiple people who are in the know have pointed out that the Board of Directors' page on the W&W's website has changed, and that a couple of changes were made:

https://www.wwrr.com/about/hrcv/board.aspx

One of those people that left on the BoD "resigned after attempting to vote down and oppose whatever the BoD was planning next. He came to the protest to support his fellow volunteers."

Another comment from someone in the know indicates "the person that stepped down was the last remaining “voice” on the BOD in support of WWRR to get back to its HRCV mission “to preserve and interpret the natural, cultural and railroad heritage of northern Delaware, and specifically the features of the Red Clay Valley, for the education and enjoyment of the public.”"

Honestly, folks, this continues to look worse and worse for the future of the railroad.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
It occurs to me, long an outsider after volunteering there in the 1980s, that an intelligent strategy could be for the dissenting volunteers to call legally into question the 501(c)3 tax exemption status of the railroad as currently administered, given the seeming failure of the current BOD to fulfill whatever "educational" and "preservation" missions are outlined in its charter.

This highlights some potential "learning experiences" for other such groups, old and new:

1) Make the "preservation," "education," and other such aspects an integral part of the non-profit's by-laws, not some blather just written to gain a non-tax status (which I think, too often, it is). AND THEN KEEP TO YOUR WORDS.

2) IF there is ever a perceived "need" to enter into a for-profit business angle in operations--freight switching, car storage, mechanical services, even dinner-train charters--do everything you can to make the division ironclad and "by the book," with the help of tax and business attorneys as needed.

The daunting potential problem I foresee with an antagonistic BOD............... well, no, I'd better not say anything lest I give the blighters ideas.......


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 7:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
There is now a fundraiser ongoing to raise funds for legal challenges to the current BOD.

Not endorsing or condoning, just pointing it out as an update:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-u ... ing-rights


Quote:
This GoFundMe campaign aims to cover legal expenses incurred in restoring the voting rights of members within our organization. In 2020, the Board of Directors unilaterally amended the bylaws, stripping members of their right to attend meetings and elect board members. This is a clear violation of our founding documents, which explicitly state that "The Board of Directors shall be elected by the members at the annual meeting of the corporation." Subsequent questionable board actions included terminations, a breakdown in communication, and ultimately, the temporary operational shutdown of the organization in 2025. These drastic measures have left us with no choice but to pursue legal recourse.

Your contribution will directly support legal fees associated with restoring members' rights to elect their governing body. Donations do not confer any legal standing, stake, entitlement to specific outcomes, or compensation. Any remaining funds after the legal process concludes will be donated to the organization or another local nonprofit.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 2:13 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Bucks County, PA
The previous post from the "Concerned Volunteers" Facebook page also includes the following (I only included the first of two pages here):

Attachment:
concerned1.jpg
concerned1.jpg [ 230 KiB | Viewed 19352 times ]


So while the "bridge needs to be replaced" and trackwork needs to be maintained, speeder excursions are being given and the doodlebug has been out and about, including over said "bridge" that "needs to be replaced". The railroad has become the board's own personal playground at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 11:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
bigjim4life wrote:
So while the "bridge needs to be replaced" and trackwork needs to be maintained, speeder excursions are being given and the doodlebug has been out and about, including over said "bridge" that "needs to be replaced". The railroad has become the board's own personal playground at this point.


In all fairness:

1) The line has ALWAYS had weight limitations and bridge issues. The last Chessie System employee timetables that included the Landenberg Branch stipulated: a) NO locomotives except EMD SW1's and Also S2's, and b) no operation of Chessie trains on weekends. The 4662 has a lighter axle loading than the locos. And note that no other diesel model has been used on the line probably since two B&O E8s backed a train only to Marshallton in 1968.

2) Track speeders and hy-rail trucks can go over some of the worst track out there. I've personally ridden on two NARCOA "special movements" that were the very last rail movements over track that was awaiting removal, with years of deferred maintenance.

Having said that, I'm at the point of not believing one word of the codswallop being blathered by this current board.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:56 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 725
Location: Wall, NJ
Interestingly the GoFundMe page has done pretty well, bringing in $6600 of the hoped for $10K. One person donated $1000, other donations are much smaller from a total of 42 people so far. That last number is impressive. Tends to show support for what ever action is planned for.

Going back to the NJMT/Pine Creek issues of the past 20 years, which are very similar to the W&W situation, legal action was considered by the membership who lost their voting rights. There is a process in the state of NJ under Title 15A covering the appointment of a receiver which might have stood a good chance at removing the NJMT board of trustees, but no one wanted to pay a lawyer to take this on and indeed a lawyer is needed. I don’t recall if GoFundMe was available back in those days or not, certainly social media was not what it is today.

Seems like more and more new non-profits are set up with no membership vote. Seems like a bad idea to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2025 12:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 308
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
bigjim4life wrote:
So while the "bridge needs to be replaced" and trackwork needs to be maintained, speeder excursions are being given and the doodlebug has been out and about, including over said "bridge" that "needs to be replaced". The railroad has become the board's own personal playground at this point.



2) Track speeders and hy-rail trucks can go over some of the worst track out there. I've personally ridden on two NARCOA "special movements" that were the very last rail movements over track that was awaiting removal, with years of deferred maintenance.



I'm reminded of the photos I've seen of when there were a few individuals who were running speeders over the old NYC Adirondack Division between the end of Frank Menair's Adirondack Railway in '81 and the start of the Adirondack Centennial Railroad in '92. The line is prone to washouts above Thendara and there are photos in John Taibi's book of them running speeders over 30-foot sections of rails suspended 5 feet in the air with maybe a few spindly timbers wedged under the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 12:41 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
The GoFundMe page has reached its $10K goal, including more than one four-figure anonymous donation........


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 9:30 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 725
Location: Wall, NJ
The number of donations in that $100-$500 range is impressive. A total of 59 people made donations, again very impressive for a gofundme campaign these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 7:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 132
Sad thing only winner will likely be the lawyers from this group and from the BOD. Somebody want to call time of death


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