In the thread below, somebody mentioned Thomas as being a "loss leader" and that isn't so. It's definitely a good money maker and yes the gift shop doesn't hurt either. Yes, it DOES take a lot of money to pull it off. Yes, it does take a lot of planning an a place that can handle parking for 6,000 per day, food for 6,000 and entertainment for 6,000 plus a train that can accommodate at least 350. But yes it is definitely worth it.

I think Britt Allcroft, and now Gullane Entertainment, has wisely allocated the initial replicas to places that can handle a large volume. No need in advertising Thomas will be on hand if you're going to turn away a large percentage of your potential audience. We could have easily sold another coach or two per trip at Spencer.

Some of the smaller locations may benefit from the additional non-powered replicas that Strasburg is building for Green Bay and IRM to start running in 2002. They should be less expensive to tote around and make for more locations. Also, there will be a narrow gauge version based at Durango.

So, everybody, start talking it up at your place. You've got a year to get all the pieces of the puzzle in place. Fix up those coaches, pave those parking lots. Line up those extra food vendors.

Wrinnbo@aol.com

> In the thread below, somebody mentioned
> Thomas as being a "loss leader"
> and that isn't so.

Guilty Jim. My reference was to the Thomas RIDE itself as a loss leader - in other words, if you sold nothing but impulse priced tickets to ride the replica it wouldn't easily cover more than the costs of producing the event.

The real money to be made I still believe is through the additional gains in the gift shop and food, whatever creative things you can devise to make the event supportive of your programming. And yes, it is way too expensive for many of us as is.

I hope the quality of the unpowered replica is high enough and the cost low enough to work for those of us not as well situated and supported as Spencer Shops. We certainly need every opportunity. When I consider the real differences between Spencer now and what it was when we all had to chip in to buy a gallon of paint with our pocket change 15 years ago it gives me hope for the future everywhere.

Dave



irondave@bellsouth.net

Why don't you museum guys get together and devise a new fictional train charactor that the kids can rally around and be something less costly perhaps than Thomas. While I realize Thomas is a huge draw because of all the other previous shows and publicity, there is nothing that says it has to be the only ballgame in town. Get creative and and make a unique figure for your unique railroad. Perhaps devise a facade(like the old streamlining on steam engines), that you can turn a locomotive(steam or diesel) into for such special events. There would be some intial costs, but over time it would pay off big dividends. Once it is created get the local media out there(actually before its built, show the concept stages), then have a grand opening, etc etc...Its all in promotion. It could even be something that has historical advantages(wow theres a novel idea that might get kids interested)!
Food for thought, not from the food vendors.
Steamingly,
Greg Scholl

Videos

Sales@gregschollvideo.com

Hey, I'll offer to design the "new" mascot as I have a background in cartooning. It should definetly be a more "American" looking locomotive though.

Just an idea.



rpiecuch@servtech.com

Okay idea, but unless you can get it syndicated, (and market it until it is popular in it's own right) a lot of people will say "Look at that cheap rip off on Thomas!"
It might be easier to find an established cartoonist with a strip, and ask him to introduce a suitable character. (Probably nt, can you picture Garfield at the local transportation museum?)

Or you could always try to get a license to use Casey Jr (from Dumbo) off of Disney...(Walt might have gone for it, who knows about the current bunch)

Narrow Gauge Dead Goat Saloon

Why Should a new mascot be created? Why not rejuvenate an old one such as the Toonerville trolley, or the little engine that could? You could build off of something already established. In society today we see many examples of recreating past shows and icons. With a rejuvenated Little Engine That Could you can build off of it and maybe introduce Larry the Light Railcar, Hugo the High speed train, or (Gasp) Maggie the Maglev. they could be the grandchildren of the little engine that could. The Toonerville trolley is another one that could be revived. That way the electric museums are not left out. Just some more food for thought

Michigan transit Museum
Sutterd@hotmail.com

The
> Toonerville trolley is another one that
> could be revived. That way the electric
> museums are not left out. Just some more
> food for thought

Does the trolley on Mr Rogers have an identity?

Dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

We carry the licensed wooden Trolleys from Holgate (3 sizes from Brio compatible on up). Lots of parents try to show them to their kids (3-5yr olds), but most of the kids just don't care.

I guess Mr. Roger's isn't as popular with kids as he used to be...probably due to competition from Barney and other faster paced shows.

Catfish Hollow Toys

An interesting Railroad article from 1938 (link below) apparently debates the preservation of the narrow gauge movie star. I think that a rejuvination of this character would indeed add to any trolley museum. The Toonerville Trolley is an American Institution, and public perception og transit in part generated by it probably motivated the development of PCCs and later LRTs.
Does anyone know if this narrow gauge artifact still exists?
Movies are preserved by the Film Foundation:
http://www.cinema.ucla.edu/filmfoundati ... h/toon.htm

Railroad Article on the Toonerville Trolley

Great care should be taken in trying to resurrect an old icon. Most of these were registered as trademarks by their creators. (No doubt they had trouble with knock-offs in their day as well.

I am pretty sure Casey Jr was trademarked; some others I know are trademarked are The Little Engine that Could and the Purdue University Boilermaker Mascot.

One of the opportunites Thomas offers besides attracting visitors and selling tickets is the opportunity to sell Thomas items through the museum gift shop. If you decide to ressurect or even create from scratch a new mascot, you would want wooden railway engines, books, toys, and other items available for sale as well.

Another partnership could perhaps be formed with the current publisher of these mascots.

Finally, a Japanese operator had another idea. A steam locomotive was painted bright red with yellow trim and other bits added. The end result was a robot character like what one might find on Pokemon or some similiar comic strip. The crossover effect between railfans and sports fans that could occur through a character like the Purdue University Boilermaker Mascot is worth considering as well.

> Why Should a new mascot be created? Why not
> rejuvenate an old one such as the
> Toonerville trolley, or the little engine
> that could? You could build off of something
> already established. In society today we see
> many examples of recreating past shows and
> icons. With a rejuvenated Little Engine That
> Could you can build off of it and maybe
> introduce Larry the Light Railcar, Hugo the
> High speed train, or (Gasp) Maggie the
> Maglev. they could be the grandchildren of
> the little engine that could. The
> Toonerville trolley is another one that
> could be revived. That way the electric
> museums are not left out. Just some more
> food for thought


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> [snip] The Toonerville Trolley is an
> American Institution, ...

[snip]
> Does anyone know if this narrow gauge
> artifact still exists?

I vaguely remember from a vacation trip through Michigan and Wisconsin that there was on the Upper Peninsula, near Tahquamenon Falls, a sign posted to the "Toonerville Trolley". A separate Rand McNally Michigan map of that time, about 14 years ago, shows a "Narrow Gauge R.R." in the middle of nowhere, due south of the falls halfway towards state route 28 which runs from Sault Ste Marie through Marquette to Ironwood. Access was apparently from the south from SR28 (at Soo Junction?) over an unimproved road, about 45 miles west of Sault Ste Marie. My brand new Rand McNally atlas does not show it at all, and I have not tried to poke around on the web for it. As I did not go there (rather to the spectacular falls), I don't know if they have/had that car, a duplicate, something similar, or just copied the name.

Cheers, Jochen

JochenTrost@cs.com

> I vaguely remember from a vacation trip through Michigan and Wisconsin that there
> was on the Upper Peninsula, near Tahquamenon Falls, a sign posted to the
> "Toonerville Trolley". A separate Rand McNally Michigan map of that time,
> about 14 years ago, shows a "Narrow Gauge R.R." in the middle of nowhere,
> due south of the falls halfway towards state route 28 which runs from Sault Ste Marie
> through Marquette to Ironwood. Access was apparently from the south from SR28 (at Soo
> Junction?) over an unimproved road, about 45 miles west of Sault Ste Marie.
[snip]
> I don't know if they have/had that car, a duplicate, something
> similar, or just copied the name.

I found this site on the "current" USGS topo maps of the area. There is (or was) a private Narrow Gauge Railroad that ran from Soo Jct, MI, north to an isolated spot labled "Betty B Landing" which is on the Tahquamenon river.

I have no idea what it is (or was). However, I will say the idea of a private, Narrow Gauge railroad in the middle of nowhere, certainly appeals to me. (Ah, if I only made the big bucks :-).

-Ed Lecuyer

Maptech/USGS topo of Betty B Landing
elecuyer@maptech.com

The Toonerville Trolley in Michigan's upper peninsula is not directly related to the toonerville trolley of Hollywood fame. It is a 2 foot gauge railroad that operates in the summer months as a tourist excursion to the upper falls on the Tahquamenon river. The line travels from Soo junction to the Betty B Landing where the passengers board the riverboat Betty B. If I am correct the operation started in 1923. They use a small diesel engine with a few passenger cars.

Michigan Transit Museum
sutterd@hotmail.com