The WW&F will be relettering our #10 several times this summer in celebration of its 100th birthday and the several railroads its been on its life.

I'm assuming the best way to preserve the existing tender lettering is to cover it up with a magnetic sheet. I've heard of railroads doing this to temporarily reletter an engine for a charter trip.

Where does one get these magnetic sheets?

WW&F

Hi Jim,

Most mid to large size “sign” companies maintain a stock of magnetic material for signs of all sizes to be placed on cars and trucks. The material comes in rolls of different widths and one side of it is excellent for painting or affixing vinyl lettering.

The sign artist cuts the material to length to fit on the side of the car or truck or tender. Usually the “painting” side is manufactured in colors closely matching auto paint. They should have or be able to order “black”, they could then create the letters for you on a digital stenciling machine, cutting the letters out of sticky-back sheet vinyl and affixing the letters to the magnetic sign.

From my experience, the product is not cheap but it’ll be very durable and you’ll get your money’s worth for years of service. Check your local yellow pages for “signs” and look for company advertisements that mention “magnetic” - give ‘em a call.

Good luck,
de Don N2QHV


http://www.rmli.org
n2qhv@arrl.net

Another more temporary, less expensive method we have used is to utilize "contact paper", if your image is needed for a very limited amount of time. We have our sign company create the letters which are then placed on contact paper (which has been painted on one side to match the tender color). The contact paper is then attached to the tender, with the edges taped down (using tape of a matching color). This is how our locomotive #75 became a "Great Western" engine for the 2001 and 2002 winter photo freights featured in the January 2004 CEDCO calendar. Quick and dirty, for less money than a magnetic sign. However, you don't want to get the sign wet and it won't last too long. S.C."Doc" Lewis may have more details, since he did the leg-work.

Craig


Heber Valley Railroad
clacey@hebervalleyrr.org

You might also want to check with Jason Johnson of the Ohio Central. They created a gorgeous redition of the slanted late 1940's Grand Trunk Western logo which they have used on numerous photo charters with ex-GTW #6325. I believe anything that "hangs out" (the OC logo on 6325 is fairly close to the Lehigh Valley diamond logo) was simply covered with black tape.

TJG

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

The same vinyl magnetic material of which refrigerator magnets, and I assume temporary steam locomotive lettering, are made, is available from most well-stocked commercial plastics suppliers at bulk rates, by the roll. I have had success in using the stuff to make self-adhesive lettering stencils for steel railroad equipment.

Dave Vago

davago@mtu.edu

A magnetic panel will work great on a smooth surface, but it may not be too great on a riveted tender.
It will not conform to the shape of the rivets, so the appearance will be "wavey".
There's also the chance that the panel could slide off, since it will not have a real good bite on the surface it is supposed to be clinging to.
Try to get a sample and try it on your tender, before you commit, because it's not cheap.

Another option would be to get a real good coat of black (?) paint on the tank. Be sure to let the paint cure for a while, if it's too fresh, it will peel during the vinyl application or removal. Then just use vinyl lettering for each different lettering application. This will give a real nice product, and the sign shops can do amazing things with today's computers. You can give them a photo of what you're trying to replicate, and some basic measurements, and you'll like the results.

The vinyl is easy to apply, but be sure you have a smooth glossy surface. If you do have alot of rivets to cover, get some extra "patching" vinyl the same color as your lettering, because it will stretch and possibly tear at the rivets.

When it's time to change your lettering, the vinyl is not that hard to remove, although it can't be saved for re-use. There are different grades of vinyl, depending on how long you want it to last, and this effects the cost.

I think the boys use vinyl for the Rio Grande on the engines at Chama...???

"Rots-O-Ruck" and please post the results of your efforts !

Steve Gilbert
17 years in the sign business before goin' RRing.

> S.C."Doc" Lewis may have more
> details, since he did the leg-work.

what we used was Contac brand shelving paper in black. You will have difficulty finding it in local stores because they find that the floral, stripes and checkerboard prints sell better than solid black. As I recall, I found the source through a Google search and it ended up being a school supply source that we used.

Some additional tips:

1. Thoroughly clean the tender sides -- the entire tender side -- before applying the contac paper (with the lettering already on the paper). If you don't, you will remove all the grime under the paper when you lift it leaving a clean box outline where the temporary name was.

2. A 'dulling' spray will help balance any sheen difference between the tender paint and the paper. Use a water-based spray in that the solvents in some sprays will dissolve the plastic. The intentional 'overspray' will have to be cleaned off after removal of the contac paper or a 'box' will again result (see #1 above).

3. If possible try to get the edges of the paper close to the rivet lines on the tender -- the paper edges will not be as apparant in photographs.

4. Work as a team laying the paper down. smooth as you lay trying to avoid pockets or bubbles -- if they do occur a pin prick at the edge of the bubble will allow you to express the air and smooth out the paper.

5. If the paper has to lay over a rivet, come to that point, place a small "x" with an x-acto knife in the paper at the apex of the rivet. Come back later to press the paper up to the base of the rivet (allowing the "x" to split open even wider), then cut the paper circumferentially at the rivet base.

good luck

sc 'doc' lewis

utweyesguy@aol.com

I indicated in the posting above that the lettering was on the shelving paper before being applied to the tender.

My graphic designer son reminded me that we applied the paper to the tender---THEN applied the vinyl lettering.

> sc 'doc' lewis


utweyesguy@aol.com

> The WW&F will be relettering our #10
> several times this summer in celebration of
> its 100th birthday and the several railroads
> its been on its life.

> I'm assuming the best way to preserve the
> existing tender lettering is to cover it up
> with a magnetic sheet. I've heard of
> railroads doing this to temporarily reletter
> an engine for a charter trip.

> Where does one get these magnetic sheets?

Depending on what type of paint you are covering up, and more importantly what kind(s) of paint are underneath the top layer, applying magnetic or adhesive overlays can cause the top layer of paint to lift off the tender upon removal. I have seen these magnetic overlays cause significant damage to alkyd enamel if left on for a long time (months) exposed to the direct (i.e. hot) sunlight.

The tender on #10 is *quite* small, less than 5 feet long and 4 feet high. This means people will be up close and personal to it while it's in the station, so how it looks close up is as important as far away. The only rivets found are the top and bottom.

The paint on it is black, probably semi-gloss, with white "WW&F Ry" lettering.

Each lettering scheme will last for 1 month. Two of them require lettering the tender, with no tender lettering on the third. So I'll probably need 3 coverings unless one of the two I can flip over. It's important that the lettering underneath be preservered as I really don't want to have to repaint it.



WW&F

> The tender on #10 is *quite* small, less
> than 5 feet long and 4 feet high. This means
> people will be up close and personal to it
> while it's in the station, so how it looks
> close up is as important as far away. The
> only rivets found are the top and bottom.

> The paint on it is black, probably
> semi-gloss, with white "WW&F
> Ry" lettering.

> Each lettering scheme will last for 1 month.
> Two of them require lettering the tender,
> with no tender lettering on the third. So
> I'll probably need 3 coverings unless one of
> the two I can flip over. It's important that
> the lettering underneath be preservered as I
> really don't want to have to repaint it.

If the tender is so small why not do the job right and use REAL paint each time. If can't be that hard to spray the black on the two tender sides for each new lettering. This solves all your visual problems and it may not cost as much as the other fake stuff. Of course you still need a stencil for the white lettering. Doing it this way would be historicaly correct also...another perk.
Curious

I once talked to a friend who works for a radio station about the vinyl work they regularly have applied to their vehicles for temporary promotions or advertisments. Apparently this vinyl is designed to last for up to a year and can easily be pealed off without damaging the underlying paint. I've also been told that the vinyl is designed to allow UV light to pass through so that the paint underneath will fade at the same rate as the uncovered paint. The effect always looked excellent.

> If the tender is so small why not do the job
> right and use REAL paint each time. If can't
> be that hard to spray the black on the two
> tender sides for each new lettering. This
> solves all your visual problems and it may
> not cost as much as the other fake stuff. Of
> course you still need a stencil for the
> white lettering. Doing it this way would be
> historicaly correct also...another perk.

Well, you're right that it would be historically correct. However I have a 5-evening window to make the change each time. I'd have to paint over or grind off the existing lettering, then hand-paint the lettering. My wife probably wouldn't like that much. I'd rather paint something at my leisure, in the small amount of spare time that I have, and maintain harmony at home.

It would also be nice to remove something and be able to raffle it off or sell it, since this is a one-shot deal.

WW&F

> I have a
> 5-evening window to make the change each
> time. I'd have to paint over or grind off
> the existing lettering, then hand-paint the
> lettering. My wife probably wouldn't like
> that much.

James, I've had experience with both vinyl and magnetic temporary lettering.

The temporary magnetic panel is usually pretty noticeable even from a distance. And if you have seen photos of the "Clinchfield" lettering on UP 3985 in 1992, you'll know that the non-magnetic lettering used was pretty noticeable too.

My most successful "temporary" job was to place vinyl over the lettering I wanted to preserve, then paint the whole tender side. That makes the vinyl blend in with existing tender paint. From there letter like you would otherwise, then simply peel the vinyl off at the end of your effort. I've intentionally butchered the photo below to show that, even with lighting that would highlight the edges, the vinyl covering simply isn't visible.

If you're not concerned about saving what's on the tender today, just start with a blank slate.

In your case, rather than painting lettering on, I'd get vinyl lettering cut at a sign company. It comes between two sheets of peel-off paper - peel off the back, line it up, rub it on.

Unless you seal them with laquer, they'll peel off pretty easily at the end of the month.

The C&TS has been using it on their coaches for years, and it's inexpensive. We simply provided a Word document (with the proper font imbedded - look at the "options" box in the "save as" dialog) to a signmaker and returned to pick up the lettering.

JAC

James,

I am hoping to be there for the members picnic in september. What kind of lettering will she have at that time? Edaville?

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov