I wonder if everyone could post their experiences with the organization of Thomas the Tank Engine events. How much did your group have to put out in advance, both for the engine and advertising? Did you make a profit? Any negative experiences? Was it worth the trouble? Thanks in advance.

cnrnorthern@hotmail.com

>How much did your group have to put out in >advance, both for > the engine and advertising?

Isn't it $40,000 or so for the license?

Joshua

> I wonder if everyone could post their
> experiences with the organization of Thomas
> the Tank Engine events. How much did your
> group have to put out in advance, both for
> the engine and advertising? Did you make a
> profit? Any negative experiences? Was it
> worth the trouble? Thanks in advance.

First the good side: kids love Thomas and they will have a great time. If the kids are happy, so are 99% of the parents. You'll get people into your museum that have never visited before. You'll also get people who may not been for many years and will be pleasantly surprised. You have a chance to improve the image of your museum in the community by demonstrating a big impact on tourism. You have a chance to make some money, but only - and I mean only - if you have volunteers to do almost everything. And that money will be made in the retail tent.

Your gate receipts will pay for license fees (30% of gross), shipping, extra insurance, color signage, toilets, tent rental, parking, entertainers, sound system rental, table and chair rental, probably a generator rental, fencing, actors to be the fat controller, security, some extra staff, advertising, and even a performing rights fee. Don't forget to discount what you would have earned on a normal weekend. Event admissions were about 10% - 20% more than event costs.

Mostly, people will be unwilling to say anything negative on a public board like this because the contract prohibits saying or doing anything that makes Thomas or its owners look bad. What little I'll say here is that if you do Thomas, the entertainment company will try to own you, so be prepared to push back hard when they tell you to do something you don't agree with, and especially when it isn't in the contract. Most of these dealings will be with a third party acting on the owner's behalf.

If you sell your event out, you'll probably make some money. But along the way to the show date, you'll be "ordered" to do things they "forgot" to tell you about and those things will cost you thousands.

Advertising? The sky's the limit. They want you to use radio and television but I'd advise against it. Print and Internet cost less and are at least as effective. BTW, be forewarned about ticketing: most of the public despises ticket vending companies and their really high fees that are added on to the already expensive (considering it's for little kids) Thomas tickets.

And finally, you need to be set up to sell tickets, with an event plan in place, and a source for 50 - 100 staff people per day (depending on the size of your event) all at least 4 months before you hope to host the event. Any less time and you will be facing an expensive advertising bill to get the word out in your community.

Was it worth the trouble? Probably, but the entertainment company keeps racking up the requirements each year (which costs you, not them, money). And Thomas hasn't been on television for 3 years.

Good luck.

PTH -

Not sure how long its been since you hosted your event, but all tickets are now sold through Ticketweb. The host venues are charged a 3% fee for not having the privilege of selling tickets.

IMO, I think this is a make or break year for DOWT. The contract with BLG runs out when this year is over and there is no still sign of Thomas returning to TV. Oh yeah, I heard what was said at the TRAIN convention but I have heard that same thing for 3 years now. So far our ticket sales for the 2004 event have not been overwhelming.

G. Mark

Updates constantly at our website!
aw90@comcast.net

> PTH -

> Not sure how long its been since you hosted
> your event, but all tickets are now sold
> through Ticketweb. The host venues are
> charged a 3% fee for not having the
> privilege of selling tickets.

> IMO, I think this is a make or break year
> for DOWT. The contract with BLG runs out
> when this year is over and there is no still
> sign of Thomas returning to TV. Oh yeah, I
> heard what was said at the TRAIN convention
> but I have heard that same thing for 3 years
> now. So far our ticket sales for the 2004
> event have not been overwhelming.

> G. Mark

G. Mark
Can you tell the rest of us if your sales are up or down compared to same time last year? our ticket sales fell off by 40% after the 1st year.It was still well worth the effort to put on the event in 2003

We hold our DOWT in November and it has been a great success. Our Museuem has been able to make a number of improvements that would not have happened without "Thomas"

However this has taken a lot of work by our volunteers [150 people for 6 days] But what do they say? "What dosen't kill you makes you stronger" O.E.R.M. is a much better place then it was 2 years ago.

To answer the original question "is it worth the work"
your group needs to get in touch Hit Production I'am sorry I don't have their number but it can be found at the Thomas web site. Go for it all you will do is make money!



davewolven@msn.com

I'm aware of TicketWeb. I think the real issue is not the legalized theft of 3% of a few hundred thousand dollars per event but the way our customers feel about paying $2 or $2.50 per ticket for the privilege of purchasing tickets over the Internet.

TicketWeb is part of TicketMaster, perhaps the one company disliked more than Enron, Tyco or MCI. (Hopefully this isn't considered flaming)How about the typical family buying 5 or 6 tickets? That's 12.50 or 15.00 to print the tickets and mail them to the customer. Outrageous!

Regarding the 3%, in fairness, if the tickets were sold at the museum's ticket counter, there'd be a 2% - 4% credit card fee.

-PTH

> PTH -

> Not sure how long its been since you hosted
> your event, but all tickets are now sold
> through Ticketweb. The host venues are
> charged a 3% fee for not having the
> privilege of selling tickets.

> IMO, I think this is a make or break year
> for DOWT. The contract with BLG runs out
> when this year is over and there is no still
> sign of Thomas returning to TV. Oh yeah, I
> heard what was said at the TRAIN convention
> but I have heard that same thing for 3 years
> now. So far our ticket sales for the 2004
> event have not been overwhelming.

> G. Mark

Hitt Entertainment , New York

212-463-9623

ask for Julie Freedland

Mike

> G. Mark
> Can you tell the rest of us if your sales
> are up or down compared to same time last
> year? our ticket sales fell off by 40% after
> the 1st year.It was still well worth the
> effort to put on the event in 2003

> We hold our DOWT in November and it has been
> a great success. Our Museuem has been able
> to make a number of improvements that would
> not have happened without "Thomas"

> However this has taken a lot of work by our
> volunteers [150 people for 6 days] But what
> do they say? "What dosen't kill you
> makes you stronger" O.E.R.M. is a much
> better place then it was 2 years ago.

> To answer the original question "is it
> worth the work"
> your group needs to get in touch Hit
> Production I'am sorry I don't have their
> number but it can be found at the Thomas web
> site. Go for it all you will do is make
> money!


Highiron@aol.com

My experience was taking my 3 yr old with my wife to see Thomas in Utica NY. Tickets were $14/ea + surcharges (no child discount!). For that we got to see a full size Thomas dummy engine on the back of the train, a 4 mile round trip train ride, lots of Thomas music, and a lot of people standing on long lines. The photo session with Thomas at the end of the train ride was very rushed and the main Thomas characters spent more time in hiding than they did in public.

Of course, my son thought it was all great - while my wife and I couldn't wait to get out of there.

I don't think we'll do it again. Utica is almost 3 hours from us and I'm sure my son will be bored with Thomas by then.

I would definitely say that it's not something for a small museum. You'll need plenty of parking and room for facilities and the tent where you can buy Thomas stuff that costs more than if you bought it at a store.

> I wonder if everyone could post their
> experiences with the organization of Thomas
> the Tank Engine events. How much did your
> group have to put out in advance, both for
> the engine and advertising? Did you make a
> profit? Any negative experiences? Was it
> worth the trouble? Thanks in advance.


nessman@rochester.rr.com

Wow --- Sounds like going to an amusement park, movie theater, arcade, concert, sporting event, or any other activity in this day and age!

mrcooltrains@yahoo.com

Boy, Was I lucky!

I saw the real Thomas ex brooklyn Eastern District Terminal at Railfair 1999.

No sales tent, no characters, but lots of happy kids and adults. The event did not try to make money with the Thomas etc. It was a side element of Railfair being the main event.


ted_miles@nps.gov

> Boy, Was I lucky!

> I saw the real Thomas ex brooklyn Eastern
> District Terminal at Railfair 1999.

> No sales tent, no characters, but lots of
> happy kids and adults. The event did not try
> to make money with the Thomas etc. It was a
> side element of Railfair being the main
> event.

Uhm... I think you're remembering wrong. I distinctly remember that the Thomas at Railfair was the little Plymouth or Vulcan or whatever it was that the Green Bay museum put together.It had some mechanical problems and was stuck behind a gate for a day or so during the fair. You *are* correct that it was a side attraction, and one which most of the "serious" exhibitors rather looked down their noses at.

That little thing came to Spencer for Rail Days once. Mercifully, Spencer figured out that it was better to separate Rail Days and Thomas.

Unless Thomas does return to TV in the near future, I give the Thomas events another 2-3 years at most. It's already dying out.

Quite frankly, I for one will be glad to see the back of Thomas. That little blue engine is getting annoying. Thomas was never a viable option for small or developing operations -- it's just too expensive. And Thomas gives those impressionable young minds a warped view of railroading. If we did things like the British on this side of the pond, it would be one thing -- but we don't.

Personally, I think that we're all better off organizing our own small events -- antique car shows, Old Thresher's meets, etc. Such things are easier to pull off on a smaller scale, are nowhere near as expensive, and while they don't attract the rugrats like Thomas does, they also don't attract as many little brats who get everywhere they shouldn't and never get yelled at by their irresponsible parents like Thomas does.

mconrad@msmgmt.com

> Unless Thomas does return to TV in the near
> future, I give the Thomas events another 2-3
> years at most. It's already dying out.
Dying out? According to the HITmen (HIT Entertainment), their revenues from Thomas were up 23% in the last 6 months.
It would be interesting to know how much of that profit came from DOWT events.

Boyd


Article on HIT Entertainment profits (scroll down)
bowens@rypn.org

>
> Quite frankly, I for one will be glad to see
> the back of Thomas. That little blue engine
> is getting annoying. Thomas was never a
> viable option for small or developing
> operations -- it's just too expensive. And
> Thomas gives those impressionable young
> minds a warped view of railroading. If we
> did things like the British on this side of
> the pond, it would be one thing -- but we
> don't.

> Personally, I think that we're all better
> off organizing our own small events --
> antique car shows, Old Thresher's meets,
> etc. Such things are easier to pull off on a
> smaller scale, are nowhere near as
> expensive, and while they don't attract the
> rugrats like Thomas does, they also don't
> attract as many little brats who get
> everywhere they shouldn't and never get
> yelled at by their irresponsible parents
> like Thomas does.

"Rugrats, little brats, irresponsible parents"? If we don't attract the younger generation, who is going to be around later to come and see our stuff?

Characterizing an entire group with pejorative terms doesn't say much about our organizations. They are our customers and the lifeblood of any business is its customers.

Peace,

Jack


jftrolley@aol.com

And
> Thomas gives those impressionable young
> minds a warped view of railroading. If we
> did things like the British on this side of
> the pond, it would be one thing -- but we
> don't.

Actually, I've always felt that for children's literature, Thomas gives a suprisingly accurate view of railroading. Rev. Awdry knew his stuff, and while I prefer the original to Britt Alcroft's version, I was very pleased with the overall faithfulness to protoype practice and look I found when I started watching the Thomas tapes with my young son.

He still loves Thomas, but his current favorite tape is an old promo for the WMSRR I had lying on back shelf somewhere. Now he asks me "Mountain Thunder?" "Mountain Thunder?" meaning "Let's watch 734 on Helmstetter's, Dad!" And so with the help of Thomas, we bring them up right and move them along...

eledbetter@rypn.org

> It would be interesting to know how much of
> that profit came from DOWT events.

Quite a lot I'm sure. But the events themselves may be more important for indirect revenue increases. The real money is in product sales: clothes, videos, wooden train things, whistles, and so on.

Live events raise the product profile a lot, especially if museums give in to the HIT men's big push this year for TV and Radio advertising (at the museum's expense, of course) to raise awareness of the live event. While many consumers just might turn their nose up at the inflated DOWT merchandise tent prices, they are likely to visit Target and that giant predatory store known for its insipid TV commercials.

Thomas die out? I don't think so. Except of course if the HIT men cook the golden goose by continuing to ratchet up the requirements for Thomas hosts and almost entirely at the expense of the museum or railroad. Many small to medium size museums have said no to Thomas this year. So has at least one major museum. HIT men take note...