If this board covers the preservation of history as well as rolling stock, then this post is on topic.

> I guess being a bean-counter I ask what
> tangible, measurable benefit do you get
> enough bang for the buck from your dues? Do
> railroads deserve the reputation IÂ’ve
> observed as a (potentially) malevolent
> employer?

Sometimes as time passes, the railroad comes to depend on the union for some minor services. Of course, this can backfire!
About 1984, approximately 2 years after S.E.P.T.A. took over the local Philadelphia commuter trains from ConRail, they were forced to use an impartial board of independent investigators (politicians) to discover why the ex-railroaders didn't like being employed by the transit company.
One example the committee discovered was that on the railroad after almost any minor incident, the train crews's immediate superior would recommend dismissal and the next layer of management would hold an informal hearing with a brotherhood (union) representative present to find out what really happened before deciding on any punishment.
Only that lowest layer of supervision was transferred to S.E.P.T.A. employment with the crews, and now would send their dismissal recommendation to a S.E.P.T.A official. S.E.P.T.A.'s philosophy was that supervisors are hired to make hard decisions and upper management just rubber stamps them! Thus, under the new management, lots of ex-railroaders were quickly fired for minor incidents.


TyburnRR@cs.com

> Hello All

> A thousand thanks, I knew Howard, Steve, Bob
> et all would come through for me. Now if
> anyone has an extra postcard of the NKP 759
> exiting the Nay Aug tunnel in 1971.....

> Dave Crosby

Now that I've had a little time to do some research and memory refreshing, perhaps I can add a little to the previous comments. F. Nelson Blount's early "Steamtown" train operations were actually operated by the Monadnock, Steamtown & Northern Amusement Corporation; according to R. W. Nimke's book GREEN MOUNTAIN RAILROAD, MS&N was chartered on April 26, 1961, and ceased operations as an entity on December 31, 1967. After Blount's death, excursions were operated by the Green Mountain Railroad Corporation until August 27,1971; these GMRC excursions originated at Riverside, and are often referred to as "Steamtown excursions" which they actually were not. In 1971, the GMRC stopped using steam power on the excursion train. The Steamtown Foundation trustees felt that a steam-powered excursion was essential to the museum's survival, and entered into a trackage rights agreement with the GMRC to operate Steamtown Foundation-sponsored excursions. The first SF excursion train operated on August 28, 1971.

To further confuse the issue, during Blount's lifetime actual ownership of equipment was by several different entities: Blount personally, Edaville Corp., MS&N, GMRC and Steamtown Foundation. With FNB is charge, that really didn't make much difference operations-wise as the equipment was "shared as needed" between the various entities. The settlement of the Blount estate was a complicated affair because of this; Edaville, GMRC and SF eventually emerged as the survivors. J. David Conrad did a great job in his The Steam Locomotive Directory sorting out the steam loco ownership histories; I don't know of any written single record of the other equipment owned by Blount. One has to look in a variety of sources to figure it out. (Some of it may still exist in "original form" as R. W. "Bob" Adams, FNB's Superintendant in the early days, tells me has has recently turned over a lot of the records in his possession to Steve Mumley of Lebanon, NH for safe keeping.)

The ex-B&M "yellow" wooden coaches can be identified year in service to some extend by location and motive power: 1961 with 4-6-4T #47 at locations between Bradford and Sunapee, NH on the Claremont & Concord. 1962 with 2-8-0 #15 between Keene and East Westmoreland, NH on the B&M's Cheshire Branch. 1963 with 2-8-0 #15 between North Walpole and East Westmoreland, NH on the B&M's Cheshire Branch. 1964 through 1968 is more difficult as operations were in Vermont for the entire period; eng. 15 alone lettered MONADNOCK NORTHERN could be 1964 thru 1966 and lettered GREEN MOUNTAIN would be 1968. Eng. 1293 would be 1964. Eng. 89 lettered GMR would be 1965 or 1966; lettered GREEN MOUNTAIN with high headlight would be 1967; lettered GREEN MOUNTAIN with centered headlight would be 1968. Eng. 127 could be 1966 through 1968. If CNJ steel cars are included in the consist, it would be from 1965 onward. Nimke's book documents CNJ cars on the property as far back as 9/5/65--a valid date as far as I'm concerned because photographer D. S. Robinson dated his photos well. Nimke's book also includes the information that the wooden fleet was sold during 1968.

The CNJ coaches apparently were bought in the name of the Green Mountain Railroad as 12 of them became GMRC 717 through 728; some were painted in a green and yellow scheme. There were additional CNJ cars on the property which were scrapped by the GMRC. At the beginning of the 1972 tourist season, Steamtown Foundation bought 9 ex-CNJ 700-series coaches from the GMRC; they were painted into a blue scheme and lettered "STEAMTOWN". As the 1972 season progressed, SF encountered numerous problems with these "well used" cars. (In retrospect, SF should have purchased 17 Lackawanna Boonton cars which were avalable for $300 each rather the GMRC coaches.) As luck would have it, a fellow by the name of Tom Coughlin visited Steamtown and fell in love with the mahogany panelling in the cars. He offered big bucks for them, wanting to use them as boutique shops on the Boston waterfront! SF got to gut the cars (seats and seat frames, change out good windows, change out good wheels, etc); I believe six were sold to Coughlin. The three remaining GMRC cars were repaired using parts from the cars that Coughlin purchased. In addition, three more CNJ coaches were acquired as well as four Boonton cars (late 1972 or early 1973). High Iron Company donated as CNJ combine to Steamtown in 1971, and SF acquired car #717 from GMRC at a later date than the original GMRC purchase. That's the story on CNJ coaches at Steamtown/Vermont in a nutshell.


fred.gracebailey@earthlink.net

Thought I'd post this for the good of the order. If anybody has any additions or corrections, please post. Enjoy!

K.R. Bell
RR Museum of PA

PULLMAN DRAWINGS (most complete holdings, on loan from Bombadier Corp.) - Illinois Rwy Museum
PULLMAN DRAWINGS (only for equipment rebuilt by Pullman) - NEWBERRY LIBRARY
PULLMAN-STANDARD DRAWINGS, BUTLER, PA PLANT, 1942-1981 (MG-393) - PA State Archives
PULLMAN PHOTOS & NEGATIVES - NMAH & CSRM
PULLMAN, ARCHITECTURAL DWGS - Art Institute of Chicago, Burham Library
PULLMAN FAMILY COLL., COMPANY PHOTOS, EMPLOYEE RECORDS, MISC. RECORDS - Newberry Library
ALCO PHOTOS - Mohawk & Hudson Chapter NRHS
BLW, LETTERS OF MATTHIAS BALDWIN and SAMUEL MATTHEWS VAULCLAIN PAPERS - Historical Society of Penna.
J.G. BRILL NEGATIVES - Historical Society of Penna.
J.G. BRILL SUBSIDIARY COMPANIES PHOTOS (Kulhman, Wason, Canadian Brill, Danville Car Co.) - PENNSYLVANIA TROLLEY MUSEUM, Arden, Pa. (Coll. on loan from RR Museum of PA)
I.C.C. VALUATION RECORDS - National Archives at College Park
LIMA PHOTOS - Allen County Historical Society, Lima, OH
LIMA DRAWINGS - CSRM, George Kadeck, Hank Beck and Truson V. Buegel Enterprises
MASON MACHINE WORKS SPECIFICATIONS - Old Colony Historical Society, TAUNTON, MA
H.K. PORTER DRAWINGS & PHOTOS - NATIONAL MUSEUM OF SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY, Ottawa, ONt., Canada
H.K. PORTER NEGATIVES (Kentlein Coll.) - NATIONAL MODEL RR ASSOC., KALMBACH MEMORIAL LIBRARY, Chattanooga
WILLAMETTE RECORDS & PHOTOS – Oregon Historical Society, Portland, OR
VULCAN IRON WORKS NEGATIVES - Hagley Museum & Library
VULCAN IRON WORKS DRAWINGS, SPECIFICATIONS, NEGATIVES, SALES ORDER RECORDS AND PHOTOS - RR Museum of PA
BLW NEGATIVES & SOME DRAWINGS - RR Museum of PA
BLW DRAWINGS & SOME RECORDS(post 1941) MG 427 - PA State Archives
BLW RECORDS (small coll.) - STANFORD UNIVERSITY LIBRARY
BLW SPECIFICATIONS - DeGolyer Library, SMU
AC&F DRAWINGS & PHOTOS - Barriger Library & Museum of Transportation, St. Louis
BUDD Co. DRAWINGS & PHOTOS - BOMBARDIER CORP., CANADA (not open for research)- builder's photos at Bensalem, Pa. plant
BUDD CO. NEGATIVES, Lawrence Williams Co. - RR Museum of PA
BUDD CO. PHOTOS - Hagley Museum & Library
STANDARD STEEL CO. BUILDER'S PHOTOS (1902-1930), Butler, PA, Hammond, IN and Baltimore Car & Foundry works - Keith Retterer, 1442 East Bank Drive, Marietta, GA 30068
RDG CO. RECORDS - RRMPA, Hagley, Reading Company Technical & Historical Society (Hagley may have RDG CO. VRD Employee Records as well)
PRR RECORDS - RRMPA, Hagley, PA State Archives, Temple University Urban Archives, NY Public Library, NJ State Archives, Penn State, University of Michigan, Ohio Historical Society, Cincinnati Historical Society Library, Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum, PRRT&HS (Only PRR Voluntary Relief Dep't Employee Records at PA State Archives & Temple University Urban Archives)
HEISLER NEGATIVES - Lake Shore Rwy Historical Society, North East, Pa.
CLIMAX DRAWINGS (incomplete) - John L. Lewis, Estate of Walter Casler
HEISLER & CLIMAX BOILER ELEVATION DRAWINGS - Babcock Borsig Power, Erie, Pa.
U.S. RAILROAD RETIREMENT BOARD, railroad employee records for post-1936 employees - USRRTB, Chicago, Ill.
BROTHERHOOD OF LOCO ENGINEERS RECORDS - Cornell University Library