> Insurance and FRA rules is whats killing
> all american tourist railways now.

Insurance, maybe. But I think you'll find most people here support the new FRA Part 230 boiler regulations. They represent a mimumum standard for operating railroad steam locomotives safely in the modern era, devised by some of the best people in our industry. Anyone who wishes they did not have to comply with Part 203 isn't someone I want to ride with.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Hi Dicky,

Yes, Sir... there were some real characters then. The one thing I remember about Steamtown in the early-mid '70's was it seemed -- to my young eyes -- to be "real" railroading. I loved the Wolfeborough, Conway and all the other tourist lines I'd frequent with Mom during the summer, but Steamtown was different... it was BIG TIME.

Yes, if Nelson had surivived and Steamtown stayed connected with the Green Mountain, things might have been different. I like to think the Ohio Central is a taste of what could have been in Vermont.

Steamtown has always been about thinking BIG. The creation of the museum, the moves (to VT and to PA), and the offline rambles have always been about doing things BIG.

It is what we came to expect. But big doesn't always last. It is ironic that in order to get to where it could have a big facility, Steamtown had to dramatically reduce its collection.

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Wow, this thread has heated up since my last post. I don't think anyone should be placing "blame" on anyone at this point; it's a situation where various parties have to get together for the common good. Yes, the DL has to look out for its business interests--but so do the NPS and Lackawanna County. NPS has a legitimate liability concerns over DL freight trains and a county-owned trolley operation within its site limits. The Lackawanna County Railroad Authority has provided tens of millions of dollars to acquire and refurbish trackage so that a designated freight operator (currently DL), NPS and the Lackawanna County Trolley Museum--and down the road a ways, AMTRAK--would have places to operate. The goal is to have everybody cooperate for the benefit of all. Taken individually, the DL, NPS and Lackawanna Trolley are all good for the Scranton area and Lackawanna county. The problem that has developed, it appears, is that some of the parties can't agree on whether or not they're good for each other! Each, obviously, wants to protect its own interests--and it's going to take negotiations and compremise to obtain a workable solution.

Let's not get carried away with the idea that NPS train operations (and the trolley as well) are a major problem for the freight operator; I've been to Scranton a number of times and listened to operations being dispatched without any real difficulty. To say that excursion operations can't co-exist with freight is a big fallacy. If you don't believe it, take a good look at the Vermont Rail System sometime. All it takes is good dispatching!

fred.gracebailey@earthlink.net

> Steamtown's over-zelaousness on this issue
> has actually limited their operations. i
> don;t think you find an outfit that commits
> as much to safety as the NPS.

I don't know if anyone else has ever witnessed something disturbing at steamtown, but.......While I wisited the site in August of last year I saw the 2317 come in from an excursion, sit on the turntable for over 35 minutes while the ENTIRE crew was hiding in the shade BSing, well removed from the loco. The only time the engine got any attention was after each lifting of the safety, and even then only for a brief moment.
To me this is less than safe, then again.....maybe I am to much of the one strike and your out mentality.

jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

> To
> say that excursion operations can't co-exist
> with freight is a big fallacy. If you don't
> believe it, take a good look at the Vermont
> Rail System sometime. All it takes is good
> dispatching!

Yes, Fred, and with less hysteria, too! Remember, the VRS had an excursion go on the ground about the same time Steamtown did. The VRS mishap was quite similar to Steamtown, in that both were on a curve along a river bank next to a road, and a rail rolled over. The VRS incident was worse in terms of clean-up, but by all accounts, they got the passengers off in a very quick and orderly manner.

VRS took it in stride. Of course, VRS is not the magnet for criticsm that the NPS is among the railfan community.

Rob



trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Yes, Fred, and with less hysteria, too!
> Remember, the VRS had an excursion go on the
> ground about the same time Steamtown did.
> The VRS mishap was quite similar to
> Steamtown, in that both were on a curve
> along a river bank next to a road, and a
> rail rolled over. The VRS incident was worse
> in terms of clean-up, but by all accounts,
> they got the passengers off in a very quick
> and orderly manner.

> VRS took it in stride. Of course, VRS is not
> the magnet for criticsm that the NPS is
> among the railfan community.

> Rob
You guys are the best:
Here we have one hell of a situation. If Steamtown wants to run excursions they are going to have to get there own railroad and not use somebody elses. Thats the only way any tourist or museum can do it without interruption. If a tourist operation wants to operate on someone else insurance issues come into play and of course affecting freight operations. Above else in this instance the DL is taking off freight wise. Whats in it for them. One other thing didn't one of the Steamtown trips have a derailment near Slateford Jct. or Portland last season? Admittedly we all would love to have a nice train ride behind steam in a vintage coach and see beautiful scenery but lets be real about it. Whats in the best interest of the operationg railroad. I hope that there can be some kind of compromise and trips will roll this season. But liability issues still remain to be worked out. Remember also that the DL maybe Alco preservationalists but I'm sure they like to put food on the table too. They are there to make money and not have headaches not of their doing.
Hopefully it will work out.
On a side note, a few of you have mentioned the FRA and its steam regulations being unfair and detrimental to vintage steam operations. Also not paying attention to a live steam locomtive. I thank Christ that the FRA and PUC are around otherwise we would have more Gettysburg scenarios. And nobody wants that to happen. Working around any kind of heavy equipment is not a weekend or once a month occurance hence the stringant regulations. Hey they are there for the publics health. My challenge to you all in the preservation movement of steam is not to be an armchair quarterback but to get involved thats the only to keep it alive. Otherwise all we will see those stuffed and mounted steam engines in a static park like setting. You all can make a difference. If you have any questions ranging from 0-6-0 Porters to GE-9's give me a shout. You too can make difference get off your ass.

You all can make a difference. If
> you have any questions ranging from 0-6-0
> Porters to GE-9's give me a shout.

Umm, how? You didn't include an e-mail address or contact information.

You too
> can make difference get off your ass.

Profanity is not welcome on the Interchange, even as casual slang. Please note for the future.



eledbetter@rypn.org

> You all can make a difference. If

> Umm, how? You didn't include an e-mail
> address or contact information.

> You too

> Profanity is not welcome on the Interchange,
> even as casual slang. Please note for the
> future.
Sorry about the "ass" part I am a little crude at times. I meant to say buttocks. As for any questions drop me a line.I might surprise you. signed:A Conehead

memnon11075@earthlink.net