James,

Greg Scholl is right. It is a must see. It's out on DVD. I almost bought it at Fry's (Electronics) yesterday.

Brian

brianf425@yahoo.com

> James,

> Greg Scholl is right. It is a must see. It's
> out on DVD. I almost bought it at Fry's
> (Electronics) yesterday.

> Brian

Perhaps I should clarify i'm Greg Schultz. I know Greg Scholl and this isn't the first time I've been mistaken for him. Of course, I doubt he has ever ben mistaken for me ;-)

See you on the next OC photo charter Greg (Scholl)

Greg Schultz

greg@nospamskittercreek.com

"Denver & Rio Grande" was released in 1952, ten years before "Ring of Fire."

So "Ring of Fire" may very well have been the last (American/Hollywood) movie production to destroy an actual train on an actual trestle, and that was WAY BACK in 1961. ;-)

By the way, the Richard Harris/Sophia Loren debacle, which Richard Glueck eluded to, was called "The Cassandra Crossing." An absolutely terrible movie, even if you like Sophia Loren!



SJHussar@aol.com

As I understand it, there used to be a whole industry where traveling showment would stage head-on-collisions between junk locomotives, until there were a number of fatalities among spectators, and a stop got put to it. I doubt many of these staged wrecks were ever filmed. The wreck scene in Denver & Rio Grande is interesting in that they stuck a charge of dynamite under the rails and touched it off a few seconds too late, so you see the engine plow into each other and begin to settle down when the charge does off. Evidently the film makers decided that a mere crash wasn't spectacular enough. The model going off the trestle in Back to the Future was spectacular! Then there is the train wreck in Breakheart Pass, where the cars go off a trestle and are reduced to toothpicks, also well done. If memory serves correct, there is a reason Ring of Fire isn't on video or broadcast any more. I haven't seen it since the late 60's, and I was only a kid then, but as I recall, it stank to high-heavens. I didn't even watch it long enough to see the wreck scene.
The Train is available on DVD and worth watching - one of the most authentic train movies I've ever seen, even if it is French railroads. The only quibble I had with it was that Burt Lancaster pours a new bearing, files it down, and puts it on the main rod, all in five minutes. Although he used the authentic tools to do the job in the proper manner, somehow I think it takes a lot longer than that to pour a bearing brass and install it! The wreck scene and the cleanup was about as real as it gets on film.
There was one World War II movie, which title I forget, where a train of vital supplies was being rushed to the front, but a German tank gets on the track to intercept it and blows it up in a tunnel. This one was really cheesy, they shot a freight train going by a few places, and then ran a cameral down the tracks, and then SPED UP THE FILM to make it look like the vital train was going real, real fast. It looked like it had to be going over a hundred! Such grand special effects (not)! :)

fatpiecat2@charter.net

> As I understand it, there used to be a whole
> industry where traveling showment would
> stage head-on-collisions between junk
> locomotives, until there were a number of
> fatalities among spectators, and a stop got
> put to it. I doubt many of these staged
> wrecks were ever filmed.

One such collision was staged at the tent town of Crush, Texas. There is no video of it, but a series of still photographs, which you can see in the link below.

The boilers weren't supposed to explode, but at least one did, scattering hot shrapnel through the crowd. Two died, and several were injured; I don't know if this is the one that put an end to these or not.

The only thing at the Crush town site now is a Texas historical marker.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Crash at Crush -- 1896
james@survivingworldsteam.com

> As I understand it, there used to be a whole
> industry where traveling showment would
> stage head-on-collisions between junk
> locomotives, . . . .

From Mr. Robert C. Reed's "Train Wrecks" (an excellent reference for the history of train "incidents"):

QUOTE ----------

One interesting sidelight to the discussion of head-on train wrecks is the staged "cornfield meets" that were held at fairs and expositions in the 1890's and early years of the twentieth century. Crowds paid a dollar or more for the thrill of seeing two iron behemoths run together at full speed. One of the earliest staged wrecks drew 89,000 spectators athe 1896 Iowa State Fair at Des Moines. (Snip) One man made a business of staging head-on collisions of steam engines, mostly 4-4-0's, all over the country. For thirty-six years "Head-on Joe" Connolly scheduled "cornfield meets" for a paid admission. Altogether he wrecked 146 locomotives in seventy-three spectacles. Sometimes he attached an old wooden coach to each engine. The coaches were saturated with gasoline, and each one contained a pot of burning charcoal. The impact upset the pots, and the coaches burst into flames. The crowds loved it.

END QUOTE -----------

Sounds like Hollywood didn't have a thing on Mr. Connelly. Just he was active about ten years before the movie was invented. There wasn't a footnote or reference for Mr. Reed's information.

Ed

ff1044@aol.com

> The producers of "The Train"
> managed to damage or destroy quite a bit of
> French railway property in the film,
> including a couple of locos. One scene where
> a derailed train plows along the ground
> toward the camera pit is already scary on
> film, and more so when you realize that the
> camera was manned, not remotely controlled!
> =8-0

> It's well worth renting.

There was a documentary featuring the director,Mr. Frankenheimer which he talked about that shot.While the shot was taking place,he and the cameraman lewft the camera pit just before the collision,but left the camera rolling. the result was stunning!

kbcotton@flash.net

I know there were at least two movies of these staged "cornfield meets" made.

I have one on a video about train wrecks... it appears someone decided to make it as safe as possible by trying to cause the boiler explosions in a controlled manner. They installed some "I-Beams" on each smokebox, sticking out like spears, to penetrate the other locomotive's smokebox and boiler, but the pressure in the boilers is apparently so low that they produce barely a puff of steam from either locomotive. And the velosity of the two locos is so low that they barely bounce off each other. Quite UNspectacular.

The other video I have seen only in the advertisements for the Iowa State Fair coverage by Iowa Public Television each year. Unfortunately these shots are always in some "montage" of other videos of people at the various events at the fair over the years (people eating cotton candy, midway rides, people eating hot-dogs, the "Butter cow", people eating funnel cakes, plowing demonstrations, people eating popcorn, livestock judging, people eating, etc.). The crash video usually fades out or slides off the screen just *before* anything happens. Last year's advertisement showed the scene the longest I have ever seen and it was a much more spectacular wreck. There are some "specks" in the film that appear to be people that are MUCH too close to the wreck. But the scene faded out before any debris had left the crash site to know if they were in actual danger.

I have been told there is another, but it supposely shows people too close and actually being hurt and/or killed and is never publicly shown for that reason.

Semper Vaporo, (which won't be if you wreck'em!)
Charles T. McCullough

Some of the best information concerning Joe Connolly comes from B. A. Botkin and Alvin Harlow's book, "A Treasury of Railroad Folklore."

According to information collected first and secondhand by the authors, his career started with the Iowa State Fair crash in 1896 and ended with his retirement in or just after 1932. Incidentally, the locomotives wrecked at the Iowa State Fair were leased by Mr. Connolly from the Des Moines and Northwestern Railroad, as the railroad expected them to be salvagable (he had proposed to buy them but the railroad leased them instead). Preparation for that one collision took twenty days and cost $15,000. Enginemen and other staff were hired specifically for each event and briefed on their roles, so as to deliver the show that the public expected. Crowd estimates for the Iowa State Fair were about 89,000 attending the train wreck with gate admission between $.50 and $1.50-a fair sum in those days.

The Iowa State Fair was impressive, but not the biggest show that he performed. In 1911, his show at Brighton Beach back east drew 102,000 paid spectators. However, the fact that really stands out is that in his 36 year career there was never as much as a single injury due to his attention to spectator safety. Some shows were delayed as much as two hours while mounted police pushed the crowds back to a safe distance.That stands out in stark contrast to the records of others in that business, particularly Mr. Crush and the "Great Crush Crash."

All in all, it is probably safe to say that Hollywood and the early air show promoters took cues from Mr. Connolly about giving the public a spectacular demonstration and keeping them reasonably safe in the process.



awalker1829@yahoo.com