Anyone able to give an update on the condition, storage plans, and cosmetic revivial of the GG1 at the B&O Museum? Is she gutted? Rotten? Fixable? Can she be moved?
This particular locomotive is a favorite of mine, for the historical reasons. If she's never to be fixed, will they give her away? A cosmetic rebuild on the outside, then placed right on the spot where she made history would be my first hope for her.


glueck@maine.edu

> Anyone able to give an update on the
> condition, storage plans,

Still in Mt. Clare "A" yard west of the Carrollton Viaduct. No plans I have ever heard of to change her storage site.

>and cosmetic
> revivial of the GG1 at the B&O Museum?

This locomotive is not a priority compared to 1. repairing everything damaged int he roundhosue collapse and 2. restoring/stabilizing significant items from the core collection, especially steam locomotives stored outdoors. There are no plans I have ever heard to do any work on her.

> Is she gutted? Rotten? Fixable? Can she be
> moved?

Can't comment on interior condition or movability.

>If she's
> never to be fixed, will they give her away?
> A cosmetic rebuild on the outside, then
> placed right on the spot where she made
> history would be my first hope for her.

Long and short of it--B&O has no plans for the locomotive. However, they also have other priorities than figuring out what if anything to do with it.

Anyone who would like to see this happen needs to organize, lay the groundwork, and approach the B&O Museum with a plan. They have proven receptive to deaccessioning items that were not core to their collection in the past, but in nearly all cases it was becuase they were approached by a group which had done its homework very carefully first.

The spot where she made history, incidentally, is now a shopping mall with a food court and stores occupying the spot where she did her thing through the floor. I don't think putting her in the exact spot is feasable. You could display her in Union Station on one of the current tracks, but access to the track area is much more tightly restricted since 9/11 than ever before, and is now limited to ticket holders going straight to and from their trains.


eledbetter@rypn.org

> The spot where she made history,
> incidentally, is now a shopping mall with a
> food court and stores occupying the spot
> where she did her thing through the floor. I
> don't think putting her in the exact spot is
> feasable.

What exactly did she do to make history?



mckay1995@comcast.net

> What exactly did she do to make history?

Ran away at the head of the Federal Express, crashed through the bumpers, rolled into the concourse and fell through the floor of the concourse at Washington Union Station. All this was right before Eisenhower's inauguration.



Union Station crash
eledbetter@rypn.org

The ICC report may be found at: http://www1.librarydigital.com/scripts/ ... _railroads

The explanation differs somewhat from the railfan site.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> Ran away at the head of the Federal Express,
> crashed through the bumpers, rolled into the
> concourse and fell through the floor of the
> concourse at Washington Union Station. All
> this was right before Eisenhower's
> inauguration.

So the loco fell through the floor, and had to be cut into three pieces to be removed, yet the Altoona shops still put her back together and she had many more years of revenue service? Those GG1s must have been built solid as rocks. I'm also surprised that the Pennsy went to all the trouble. Were they that hard up for motive power during the early 50's?

mckay1995@comcast.net

> So the loco fell through the floor, and had
> to be cut into three pieces to be removed,
> yet the Altoona shops still put her back
> together and she had many more years of
> revenue service? Those GG1s must have been
> built solid as rocks. I'm also surprised
> that the Pennsy went to all the trouble.
> Were they that hard up for motive power
> during the early 50's?

My understanding is that insurance would not cover writing off the GG1, so PRR salvaged it instead.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com

> Ran away at the head of the Federal Express,
> crashed through the bumpers, rolled into the
> concourse and fell through the floor of the
> concourse at Washington Union Station. All
> this was right before Eisenhower's
> inauguration.

Reading this brings back memories. We were considering remodelling of our air brake room and
together with the Shop Supt. and the Air Braks Foreman I made a trip to see the Reading RR's
at reading, PA. We rode the B&O's Capitol Limited from the midwest to Washington, DC, changed trains and rode to Philadelphia and then rode the Reading to our destination.
We walked on the temporary flooring over the GGI.
At that time the actual cause of the brake failure
had not been released and there was speculation about sabotage and foreign agents. When the actual cause was determined we were puzzled because on our RR it was standard practice to make a running brake test on leaving the station where there had been a change in the consist, be it cars or locomotives.
Jim

rrfanjim@charter.net

ABout another 40 years of service! Yes, the GG1's were built to last. All of this emphasizes how important saving this particular unit it, in terms of the class and history. I understand the lack of cash issue; "for the want of a nail". This is a problem that dogs railroad preservationists in this country. If nothing else, I'd like to see her offered to somebody, or some group, that would clean her up, slap bondo to her if necessary, and give her a proper external paint job. One would think that Smithsonian would add her to their collection. The last thing we want to see is this locomtive being turned into scrap.


glueck@maine.edu

> ABout another 40 years of service! Yes, the
> GG1's were built to last. All of this
> emphasizes how important saving this
> particular unit it, in terms of the class
> and history. I understand the lack of cash
> issue; "for the want of a nail".
> This is a problem that dogs railroad
> preservationists in this country. If nothing
> else, I'd like to see her offered to
> somebody, or some group, that would clean
> her up, slap bondo to her if necessary, and
> give her a proper external paint job. One
> would think that Smithsonian would add her
> to their collection. The last thing we want
> to see is this locomtive being turned into
> scrap.

As I understand it, the Smithsonian has had title to a GG1 and eventually relinquished it because 1) enough were being preserved in "worthwhile" homes elsewhere, and 2) the Smithsonian had no place to put/store said GG1. I would think that a GG1 *might* be acquired for eventual display in the Smithsonian museum being proposed at Bethlehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa., provided that project comes to fruition.

The B&O Museum had GG1 4890, preserved with considerable input and donations from local rail enthusiasts, but then declared it surplus and traded/donated it to the National Railway Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin. To be perfectly honest, I think the 4876 in the CSX "A" yard under I-95 is, yet again, an undesired "white elephant" not in keeping with the Museum mission, and that they hope that a sinkhole swallows it up or something. And insofar as 4876 being displayed in Washington Union, does anyone think for one nanosecond that a passenger railroad is going to prop up on display a reminder of a spectacular railroad WRECK--right at the spot it happened?

Let's also remember that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has TWO GG1's at Strasburg and has custody (I think) of a third one, 4859 at Harrisburg. If 4859 gets evicted from Harrisburg's station (which I understand is a realistic scenario of late) and doesn't get placed next to Harris Tower, then what?

And we still have the debacle of two or three GG1's sitting somewhere in New Jersey waiting for a museum that may or may not ever get built. And two still(?) sitting in the weeds at Cooperstown, NY awaiting a "rebuild to operation" that may never come.

I'm personally wagering on two GG1's getting scrapped in the next decade.


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

>> Let's also remember that the Commonwealth of
> Pennsylvania has TWO GG1's at Strasburg and
> has custody (I think) of a third one, 4859
> at Harrisburg.

Greetings to Sandy and the list:

More than just custody -- the state owns the 4859, and has done so since its restoration back in 1986. That was a condition of the award of state funding to the project.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

cupper@att.net

Greetings to Dan again:

1) So is there any possibility of the 4859 being evicted from its present location under the Harrisburg trainshed? (The rumor mill seems to say "not if, but when"; but we know how accurate rumors are.)
2) Is there any possibility of the 4859 being "stuffed and mounted" on a plinth next to Harris Tower? That would keep it in Harrisburg, and also right next to the Harrisburg NRHS's handsome project.
3) what of the wooden caboose? Does the Commonwealth own that, too?

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Nothing in the ICC report mentions setting out a car in Baltimore. The inference of the report is that the angle cock on the NH car was mounted in such a way that motion of the draft gear would gradually bang it closed so if there were a car set out at BAL, a running brake test may have taken place before the angle cock had closed.

If the train had been broken and reassembled to set out a car from the inside of the consist, there should have been a standing brake test at BAL as well.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

They did have to dismantle the 4876 to get it out of where it was.

As to the logic of reassembling it, remember this is January, 1953. The newest GG1's are less than 10 years old and are basically state of the art for electric passenger (NH EP-5's are 2 years in the future). PRR would be using steam on passenger for almost 5 more years.

4876 could handle the same train that drew 3 E-8's at Harrisburg so at that time a GG1 could well be considered PRR's most valuable locomotive.

I always enjoy asking SPF's "what was the last GG1 to be assembled?" and "what was the first GG1 to be dismantled?" 4876 is, of course, the answer to both.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

If nothing
> else, I'd like to see her offered to
> somebody, or some group, that would clean
> her up, slap bondo to her if necessary, and
> give her a proper external paint job.

It's the chicken and the egg. "Somebody, some group," has to come forward with a plan. The B&O Museum cannot will such a group into being.

eledbetter@rypn.org