Don't clutch your abdomen, I'm talking about the Appendix C to DOT/FRA CFR 49 Part 230...what happened to the forms ? ( 1, 3, 4, 19 etc.) .tiff file ditched was what I find when I try to view the file(s).

I'm on the FRA site...Am I looking at the wrong source ?

Bill

heisler1607@earthlink.net

Clutch your head Bill. I will get you what forms you need. Bring a good pocket calculator.

Generally, just a little higher and to the right...........or is it left? Perspective.

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

> Clutch your head Bill.

Head permanently clutched...Seriously, why would all the official sites elide the forms ?

heisler1607@earthlink.net

> Head permanently clutched...Seriously, why
> would all the official sites elide the forms
> ?

Probably for the same reason the steam committee won't publish the books they have compiled on how to execute the new Form 4 correctly. Some attorney has advised them it might lead into potential lawsuit territory. I must admit I am very disappointed in the industry leaders who, after getting laws passed that we all need to abide by, won't share the information we need on how to do so properly. I probably made this a bit too clear in Scranton......

Maybe we can save up box tops and send in for the secret decoder ring?

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

It is my understanding that it is not the "steam committee" or "the industry leaders" who are withholding publication of the form 4 handbook. It is my understanding that the FRA that is in possession of the handbook, and it is the FRA that is hesitating on releasing this information. Speaking of potential lawsuit territory, Dave, you may want to be a little more certain of your facts before making such an inflammitory statement in such a public forum.

If you two want to work off some extra energy I suggest needle-scaling my boiler, you can each start from an end and the first one to reach the middle wins . Its kinda like painting a fence...

My original question is still unanswered...why are the blank forms gone from Appendix C on the official site ? Is there another source for softcopy *blank* forms ?

heisler1607@earthlink.net

I am repeating information I was told by members of that committee at ARM last year. Where did you get yours?

BTW, I thought that was subtle......

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

> Where did you get yours?

> Dave

I got my info from the same source, a member of the committee.

> BTW, I thought that was subtle......

> Dave

The “steam committee” started meeting at their own initiative in 1990 to come up with a more workable, practical steam rule, considering the seasonal, and occasional nature of today’s operations, and the litigious society that we live in, where no stone must be left unturned to defend ones self. They have had numerous meetings since then, traveling across the country, at their own expense, to hammer this new standard out, for the good of the industry.

When the Gettysburg dropped their crown sheet in 1995, they were there with a mostly complete draft to present to the FRA at the very time that a bureaucratic knee-jerk reaction could have shut down the entire industry.

To insinuate that they would then turn around, and attempt to hamstring that same industry by withholding the form 4 handbook in ludicrous. If I were a member of that group, I would be very insulted at the suggestion.

> I got my info from the same source, a member
> of the committee.

OK, maybe one of us wasn't given the complete story, or there is a difference of opinion in that group, or somebody was embarrassed about the situation, or one of us was lied to.

If it was me I apologise for continuing to spread untruths. It is just the best info I have on hand.

If it was you I have no responsibility for your actions any more than you do for mine, but I won't flame you about it on this forum. We have just heard different things from different people. Nor will I suggest your comment about FRA actions is inflammatory - that doesn't belong on this list.

BTW, Those guys are industry leaders for a reason. They are for the most part responsible, expert, dedicated, and they have done a fine job of creating a better set of regulations that the old ones, more attuned to the realities of operating in the 21st century. I may have some differences with the whole dome lid issue or the need to analyze the steel of any sheet you aren't proposing to weld on, but apart from minor quibbles I respect and support those guys.

Dave



lathro19@idt.net

Bill, I think somewhere down below you got an answer to your question as to where to get the forms.

As for some of the other comments made in this thread, I realize there will be disagreements, and differing views of opinion. Also, sometimes people say things without really thinking about how it might be interpreted.

In the rules and guidelines we stipulate we accept polite criticism and response to the same. If you can't be polite take it off line. We also stipulate use your real name and e-mail address (although we have reasons to be more flexible on the latter).

I considered pulling this whole thread but decided to leave it as it covers some interesting issues (of which I am totally ignorant) and raises questions about availability of vital information, or lack there of.

I did pull one anonymous post out of the thread which I considered to be totally irresponsible.


Railway Preservation News
hkading@rypn.org

> Don't clutch your abdomen, I'm talking about
> the Appendix C to DOT/FRA CFR 49 Part
> 230...what happened to the forms ? ( 1, 3,
> 4, 19 etc.) .tiff file ditched was what I
> find when I try to view the file(s).

> I'm on the FRA site...Am I looking at the
> wrong source ?

> Bill

Bill,

I recently checked with my local FRA man regarding the forms. He told me they are not online. I couldn't find them either. Email me your snail mail address and I will drop you hard copies in the mail.

NC Transportation Museum
shaymech@hotmail.com