Can anyone tell me how easy it is to find Tanglewood Park in Winston-Salem? We will be through there next weekend. Also, can you get to in the park pulling a camper?

Thanks
Kevin Witzel
Age of Steam Memorial
IC 2500

offngone@mvn.net

> Can anyone tell me how easy it is to find
> Tanglewood Park in Winston-Salem? We will be
> through there next weekend. Also, can you
> get to in the park pulling a camper?

> Thanks
> Kevin Witzel
> Age of Steam Memorial
> IC 2500
Kevin, It's very easy; go I-40 West to Clemmons and there are plenty of signs off the intersate to get you to tanglewood. Not knowing how big your camper is, I cannot tell you how easy or difficult it would be but the park does have a lot of narrow roads... show up and see what happens.

Oh, and tell the 0-8-0 it wasn't anything personal when we sent her to the park (in exchange for SR 2-8-0 542, waiting in the wings for a long-overdue evaluation).

Jim Wrinn

Wrinnbo@aol.com

> Thanks Jim. A couple of the old heads in our group were talking yesterday about the 3500's. They said they were real workers. Do you know how it ended up in North Carolina?
Thanks again
Kevin Witzel
(now trying to figure out how to get IC 0-8-0 back where it belongs)


offngone@mvn.net

> Thanks again
> Kevin Witzel
> (now trying to figure out how to get IC
> 0-8-0 back where it belongs)

Kevin:

How to get IC 0-8-0 #3525 back to Illinois where she belongs is easy. Contact Kevin McCabe at IRyM and secure one of their GTW 0-8-0's from Galt. After cosmetically restoring it to a Southern 0-8-0, then exchange the GTW 0-8-0 for the 3525 (the GTW loco's more closely resemble a Southern 0-8-0 anyway.) Only two problems; first the bucks involved in securing the GTW engine, restoring it and in making the (double) move and second, convincing the Parks people in Knoxville to make ANOTHER locomotive exchange.


midlandblb@cs.com

3525: Baldwin 1923. Paducah rebuild at some point. Sold to Debardelaben Coal of Holt, AL (near Tuscaloosa) in 1952. Some time in the 60s (when DeBardelaben got rid of their steam - the other engine was a (gulp!) GM&O Pacific), 3525 went to Stone Mountain. From there it went to Johnson City, TN, where it was stored.

NCTM got it in 1978.

DeBardelaben was sold to Empire Coal & Coke, and I spent a bit of time there in the 1980s shooting their ALCO switchers and, er, homemade transfer cars (EC&C received coal from both barge and an ex-GM&O branch that also connected with the Twin Seams railroad). They tell me that Pacific was good for only 2 or 3 loads going up the switchback to the tipple . . . and that it was quite a show at night.

JAC

> 3525: Baldwin 1923. Paducah rebuild at some
> point. Sold to Debardelaben Coal of Holt, AL
> (near Tuscaloosa) in 1952. Some time in the
> 60s (when DeBardelaben got rid of their
> steam - the other engine was a (gulp!)
> GM&O Pacific), 3525 went to Stone
> Mountain. From there it went to Johnson
> City, TN, where it was stored.

> NCTM got it in 1978.

> DeBardelaben was sold to Empire Coal &
> Coke, and I spent a bit of time there in the
> 1980s shooting their ALCO switchers and, er,
> homemade transfer cars (EC&C received
> coal from both barge and an ex-GM&O
> branch that also connected with the Twin
> Seams railroad). They tell me that Pacific
> was good for only 2 or 3 loads going up the
> switchback to the tipple . . . and that it
> was quite a show at night.

> JAC

John as described the engine's wanderings to a tee. Here's the scoop on the final chpater: In 1991, while on a mission to locate for NCTM a genuine SR steam engine, we looked at several candidates and ultimately found one in our own back yard there at Clemmons in a J Class Consolidation No. 542 that had been shopped at Spencer and used extensively in North Carolina. The Tanglewood Park folks, not wishing to undertake asbestos removal, agreed to an exchange for the ex-IC locomotive. This was not done without a lot of soul searching and there were some serious attempts to get the 0-8-0 back home again. As Les has pointed out, IRM is loaded with 0-8-0s and wasn't interested at the time, so the exchange turned out to be the best thing for our organization. I must admit that I have never been to see her in the park though she's less than a half an hour away from my house--too painful. While I'm overjoyed with having 542 back home at Spencer and the potential to make her run again in the next few years, I'm for breaking these things out of parks, not putting 'em in them.

Jim Wrinn


Wrinnbo@aol.com

Several points. First, you did the right thing to try to get your hands on an SR engine that ran out of Spencer. Second, since the engine in Winston Salem has no previous historical relationship to the city, maybe at some point she can be sprung back to Illinois where she belongs. My third point is a question. What became of the GM&O Pacific? Was it #425 that came via the late and much lamented Louisiana Eastern?

kevingillespie@usa.net

The pacific #425 lived at Wilmington and Western in Delaware for many years under a private owner and was sold to the Blue Mountain and Reading RR in 1984 or 85. She was restored and operated for about 10 years but now is stored out of service. She is a fine product of the Baldwin Locomotive Works and can really pcik-em-up and lay-em-down. She has powered some of the best excursions I have ever ridden.

Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE


Steam Railroading Message Board

I've seen 1960s photos of the 3525 0-8-0 in service at DeBardeleben Coal, but never the Pacific. I don't think this was the 425, now in Pennsylvania, but another one. Anyone have photos of it in service for DeBardeleben?

> 3525: Baldwin 1923. Paducah rebuild at some
> point. Sold to Debardelaben Coal of Holt, AL
> (near Tuscaloosa) in 1952. Some time in the
> 60s (when DeBardelaben got rid of their
> steam - the other engine was a (gulp!)
> GM&O Pacific), 3525 went to Stone
> Mountain. From there it went to Johnson
> City, TN, where it was stored.

> NCTM got it in 1978.

> DeBardelaben was sold to Empire Coal &
> Coke, and I spent a bit of time there in the
> 1980s shooting their ALCO switchers and, er,
> homemade transfer cars (EC&C received
> coal from both barge and an ex-GM&O
> branch that also connected with the Twin
> Seams railroad). They tell me that Pacific
> was good for only 2 or 3 loads going up the
> switchback to the tipple . . . and that it
> was quite a show at night.

> JAC


ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

> I've seen 1960s photos of the 3525 0-8-0 in
> service at DeBardeleben Coal, but never the
> Pacific. I don't think this was the 425, now
> in Pennsylvania, but another one. Anyone
> have photos of it in service for
> DeBardeleben?

Bob and John:

I seem to remember a photo of #3525 when she was in service for DeBardeleben Coal (I believe it was in Trains Magazine.) I believe they also mentioned another IC 0-8-0 along with the Pacific (although I THOUGHT it was one of those low drivered Illinois Central 4-6-2's and am surprised to learn it was a GM&O engine.) Here is a question though; why in the world would Stone Mountain take an 0-8-0 if a Pacific was available then? But perhaps the 4-6-2 had already been scrapped by that time.

As for photos of the 4-6-2 in service at DeBardeleben, my guess would be that if ANYONE has such a photo, it would be Tom Lawson, Jr. of Birmingham, Alabama.


midlandblb@cs.com

> Bob and John:

I THOUGHT it was one of those low drivered Illinois Central 4-6-2's and am surprised to learn it was a GM&O engine

It may have been. This was twenty years after the fact, so it could well have been an IC engine, not a GM&O.

I believe the engine became razor blades after one of the connecting rods broke, and the engine was barely able to pull itself up the switchbacks.

Now if only I had been able to get inside the fence and shoot those narrow-gauge steeplecab electrics they used . . .

JAC

> I THOUGHT it was one of those low drivered
> Illinois Central 4-6-2's and am surprised to
> learn it was a GM&O engine

> It may have been. This was twenty years
> after the fact, so it could well have been
> an IC engine, not a GM&O.

> I believe the engine became razor blades
> after one of the connecting rods broke, and
> the engine was barely able to pull itself up
> the switchbacks.

> Now if only I had been able to get inside
> the fence and shoot those narrow-gauge
> steeplecab electrics they used . . .

> JAC
John, I'm doing this from memory at work--awayfrom the library at the house that helps me try and get things right, but wasn't the Four and a Quarter a Paulsen Spence engine at the quarry in Louisiana?
Jim

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

The 425, both Stone Mountain 4-4-0s, and our beloved 4-4-0 #98 are all Paulson Spence engines, the only ones to make it out. 98 is by far the prettiest of all of them but the rest are lookers too.

Tom Gears
Wilmington , DE


Steam Railroading Message Board

tgears1@home.com

> John, I'm doing this from memory at
> work--awayfrom the library at the house that
> helps me try and get things right, but
> wasn't the Four and a Quarter a Paulsen
> Spence engine at the quarry in Louisiana?
> Jim

It was, although it carried the number 580 at the Louisiana Eastern. (It was renumbered after the GM&N / M&O merger.)

Louis Saillard sent me some rather thorough information on 425 at one time, including consists of trains it had pulled. 425 was equipped to operate on the Southern from the GM&N connection in Slidell, LA, into New Orleans. She was a semi-regular on Lake Ponchartrain for a while.

What if Bill Purdie had done something with the 425?

JAC

> it carried the number 580 at the Louisiana Eastern. (It was renumbered after the GM&N / M&O merger.)

During its days on Spence's Louisiana Eastern, the locomotive carried the numbers "2" and "4" at different times (I forget in what order)(in later years LE #2 was one of the two 4-4-0's now at Stone Mountain Scenic).

The Pacific got her original GM&N number, 425, back when she was sold to Phoenixville, PA machine shop owner and steam machinery fan Malcolm Ottinger. Mr. Ottinger ran the 425 in 1968 (and I believe again in 1969) on about 3 miles of the former RDG Pickering Valley Branch between Kimberton and Ironsides, PA. This short-lived tourist operation was called the Valley Forge Scenic Railroad. The VFSR also had former Mead Corporation Baldwin 0-6-0 #300 (originally Atlanta Birmingham & Atantic #58).

After the VFSR closed, both locomotives were stored at Phoenixville until the mid 70's when both were moved to the Wilmington & Western RR. The 425 and the 0-6-0 (which was re#'ed back to 58) were under private ownership and did not see use on the W&W (I think 425 was test-fired once in the yard). Both of the ex-VFSR steam engines left the W&W, but the 0-6-0 later returned as a donation from its owner and has been restored to service.

The Blue Mountain & Reading RR acquired 425 in 1984 and repaired her for use during 1985. The 425 first entered service on the BM&R in late 1985 (including handling several mainline "Christmas Shoppers" excursions to Philly). Her first full regular season on the BM&R was 1986. The blue paint scheme she wore during her last few years in service on the BM&R (and later as a RBM&N locomotive) was based on a scheme applied to a RDG Pacific during the late 1920's (NOT based on the famous CNJ Blue Comet as sometimes is mentioned). I believe 425's blue paint job was a suggestion from her late great senior engineer Charlie Kachel, a veteran RDG engineman.

Regards,
Jim Robinson