I was wondering how many tourist railroads offer an experience that totally immerses passengers in the past. By this I mean once they get out of the car, or step off the train, are they surrounded by the sights and sounds of another era or is the train and station the only thing historical they experience. An example I can think of is a railroad running in a pioneer village-type setting such as the one at Calgary's Heritage Park which I think uses a couple of ex-CPR steam engines. I suppose you could also include Strasbourg in this category to some extent as well, being in Pennsylvania Dutch country. Are there any others? If they operate within a park-like setting, are they managed by the park or by an outside company?

Thanks.

Much more common in the UK than in the US. British heitage railways like the Bluebell and the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway take pride is restoring every detail of the complete experience, from the fire in the station fireplace, to the newsagent's stand on the platofrm, to the period posters, to the flowers in the flowerboxes. It shows how far we have to go in creating a similar experience on our tourist lines.

I would argue Huckleberry R.R./ Crossroads Village has tried to create this, as has The Henry Ford (via Greenfield Village), both of which are here in Michigan. There can be arguments on both sides as to how close they really come to creating the effect, but in terms of operating in historic villages with interpreters acting in an historic fashion, these are some of the closest in the Midwest.

In Huckleberry R.R./ Crossroads Village case, they are both maintain by Genessee County Parks & Rec. Crossroads Village was a way of saving many buildings about to be torn down from all over the county; in ever instance, the buildings have been moved there for somewhere else, and aligned to create a village setting. To my knowledge, it is the only example in the United States of this being done on a County-government level (although its lasted for 30 years now in this fashion, how long this will continue last is anybody's guess, and is a bit up in the air at the moment).

The Henry Ford is a separate museum agency, a 501c3.

Hope this helps,

TJG

great topic!
In Pennsylvania, the Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern runs through a very 'authentic' rural landscape; so does the East Broad Top.
Clearly there are many others all over the land, Cumbres and Toltec comes quickly mind.
BUT, this is an increasingly difficult issue as sprawl has it's way. The appearance of Lancaster County all around the Strasburg RR. is rapidly changing and not for the better as far as a theme for the railroad. That 'maize maze' is an aesthetic debacle!
What are people doing, if anything to preserve the landscape experience?

Hi,

This is my first post to RPYN. I am a Fireman \ Engineer in training at Heritage Park in Calgary AB. We are on 66 acres of land and run a 7\8ths of a mile loop. Our two 0-6-0 steam locomotives stop at three fully restored railway stations, brought in from different areas around Alberta. The park is a fully functional, living Historical village. We have 350 seasonal employees that dress in period costumes and operate a series of different buildings, antique rides, wagon rides, antique streetcars, etc.
Character actors also walk around as "real" townspeople" helping keep the illusion alive.

Our two locomotives are numered C.P.R. 2023 and C.P.R. 2024. These are ficticious numbers that were unused by CP in the time period we represent - 1864-1914. The locomotives were built for the U.S. Army, 2023 built by ALCO originally numbered 4012, and 2024 built by LIMA numbered 4076. The engines were sold as War surplus and served a majority of their lives working at Pacific Coast Terminals, New Westminster BC. There was a post recently that linked to a picture of a sister engine of 2024 (4076), I believe it was numbered 4046.

We run three coaches, two Morrissey cars 62 and 63 respectively and a C.N. sleeper car that was converted to a observation car to tour the mountains. We have a dozen other pieces of railway equipment some that we use, others are purely display.

The engines are in beautiful condition, mostly due to the hard work of our chief engineer, and a handful of dedicated volunteers.

It is a beautiful location to visit, and when you take into account CN6060 running out of stettler, Alberta Prairie 41 also running out of stettler, Fort Edmonton's little Baldwin, and of course CP's 2816, Alberta is a great destination for a railfan's vacation

Great Forum!

Take care,

Kris Homell

It might not be totally immersing people in the past, however Skagway Alaska preserves much of the Klondike Gold Rush flavor and experience, and even the most modern buildings in town look like they're from the 40s or 50s. The WP&YR excursion trains use 50s and 60s diesels and the trip up the mountains to the White Pass and on to Fraser BC is in authentic coaches some of which date from the late 1800s. The once-a-week steam excursion to Bennett BC pulled by a restored 1947 Baldwin mikado offers all the flavor of a 1930s or 40s tourist train through the Coast mountains. Occasionally the WP&YR will recreate history with examples like this 1940s era steam freight special.
http://www.whitepassrailroad.com/

Seconding Erik's comments on British preservation lines, one truly has to see the British lines for themselves to understand the extent to which these lines go to recreate the feel of old times.

Just to give examples that I can relate to, one would have to imagine the Strasburg RR with almost all the "commercial" stuff shoved across the street--the shoo-fly pie kiosk, the olde-photo booth, the restaurants, etc. Now, construct a large station loosely based on, say, an old Santa Fe Harvey House model. Put the restaurant in the appropriate place, and have it run in period style with appropriate menu selections. Have a freight station/room as well, loaded with vintage crates, a permanently-spotted freight car being "unloaded", vintage baggage tags, old barrels of flour from the Strasburg mill (REAL ones, not recreations), etc. And yes, the bookstall/news agent, too, selling all those rail books (Videos and DVD's present but discretely out of sight). Eliminate the spring switches, and set up the signal box--sorry, tower--to operate the switches. Man that box with a chap, complete with the little stove and pot of coffee and book to read between trains--oh, and put him (and everybody else) in appropriate clothing. Top it off with a vintage "shuttle" to and from downtown--an old bus or horse carriage on a regular schedule.

Now, head on up to Groff's Grove. Another tower, another tower operator, and more of a station platform. Ditto for Leaman Place. Now, connect these places with telegraph wires or semaphore signal operations, and actually operate with train orders and telegraph operators. And Leaman Place, of course, has its OWN junction station, rebuilt in the old style, from which passengers would actually be able to transfer to Amtrak trains via some button-activated flag-stop system, or a full-fledged Amtrak stop used by locals as well. Install all the details of a junction station as well--staff, baggage, etc.--and make it functional in modern terms AS WELL AS a preservation of the old ways.

Now, I haven't mentioned the pub back in the station--unlikely on the Strasburg, but common at several British railways. Nor have I mentioned details like the vintage "horseless carriage" that one of the volunteers drives to his shift and parks at the station.

That's right, VOLUNTEERS. The typical British excursion line operates at least three stations (some as many as five or six) with a total core staff of 50-100 JUST to fulfill basic operation--that doesn't count restoration-shop employees, track maintenance, etc. Now, the critical difference: a LOT of these folks are volunteers that, for example, are only needed 10-20 minutes an hour or so, and can freely go back to their book or needlepoint or fiddle (or laptop) during quiet spells. Others may operate the bar or restaurant under contract as a for-profit operation--just like (I presume) at Strasburg/etc., but with more attention to detail. Contrast this to some excursion operations I have seen in the States operate with as few as four "staff" on the property.

Obviously, not every operation in the UK operates to such high standards--for every Bluebell, Keighley & Worth Valley, Severn Valley, or North York Moors Ry., there are a couple wretched excuses for "rail museums" or tourist trains. But the shining examples serve to highlight the British emphasis on the "big picture" and the total multi-layered package, something sadly lacking among both American rail preservationists and American tourists. No, it's not necessary to turn every Orbisonia or Dennison or Durango into a "Colonial Williamsburg"-intense experience, but we still have much room for improvement.

I can tell you about another county run historic village. Located in Bethpage, Nassau County, New York, Old Bethapge Village has houses, farm buildings, a blacksmith shop , a country inn and a church.

Sorry no railroad but a lot of history there.

Ted Miles

I think there are two separate issues here.

The first, entitled “Immersing the visitorâ€

The basement at the Cincinnati History Museum is the closest thing to a time machine I have experienced in the US. Walking through a door from late 20th century displays onto a street at night by the wharf in 1870 must be experienced.

I hope Long Leaf can ressurect itself enough to do something similar one day.

dave

What I tell our members is that the model we strive for is Williamsburg. For the time that a passenger is with us we want them to feel like they have experienced what rail travel was like in 1960 (in our case).

I think the IRM in Union has made good strides at this as well.

I think the Huckleberry RR does an outstanding job of creating a early 1900's train ride experience. You get on the train and actually get up to speed, no hokey pokey 5 or 10 miles an hour.

The crew also does an amazing job working with the limited resources of being a government funded entity.

San Jose's History Park is a collection of relocated and recreated structures from our community in a 15 acre setting. The park was originally operated by the city of San Jose. About 7 years ago, a non-profit organization, History San Jose, took ownership of the facility.

Our organization's trolley barn and 1/2 mile of track is located within the park. One of the four operational cars presently in the barn, Car124, was originally a San Jose Railroad car.

Ken Middlebrook
California Trolley and Railroad Corporation
[http://www.historysanjose.org]