I belong to a WW2 re-enactment group who does displays of WW2 US (NOT German) uniforms, weapons, vehicles and equipment.
There's a local steam operation near where I live and I'd like to approach them to do a weekend event where we show up and it's 1944, and RR Operating and MP units (and supporting combat infantry) are on hand. I have a very large collection of RR Operating unit TMs and information, and think this could be a great event for a tourist RR. I've brought this up informally with the volunteers and they say, "sure, come on down some weekend and set up," but I'd like to do this formally, on their event schedule, so we can actually work with them. Even maybe having MP's ride the trains, GI's guarding the grad crossings, stuff like that. Our group has many vehicles, including my own 1944 Willys Jeep. We do NOT have any wheels modified to run on the rails though (I've been looking but they're impossible to find originals).

I'm curious how all of you who run museums would react to a request like this. I see all the time where Civil War Re-enactors hang around RR museums, but the equipment is painfully NOT of that time period (how serious can you take, "Stonewall Jackson" walking past an F unit?)
Is this something people who like to have, for the most part? I know Steamtown used to do it, and Strasburg has a "multi-era" event like this every year.
Opinions?

Oh, does anyone else out there collect WW2 US Army RR items like I do?

I was involved in Steamtown's Veteran's commemoration weekend from 1997 to 2001, and it was always well received by the public. Maybe las than record-setting crowds will form just because of your participating, but it will make the event special for those who attend. It is good that you would like to get on their calendar, so you can work out things like an encampment area, and how to interact with the train operations. You may want a sentry guarding a strategic area like a bridge on the line. The more you integrate your activity with theirs, the more the public will respond by "getting it." Good luck.

What I have found is that the more that you can offer the public, the more the public will come. This is a great idea and I hope you present it to an operation.
Doing it formally is the best way. As a suggestion, write it down, cover what costs there might be and who will pick up the tab, what is needed from the railroad, manpower, equipment, and timing. Offer to coordinate it for the railroad.
If you want to head out to Nevada, we have just the operation. It still looks like the 1940's and we need soldiers to protect the copper production.

We have done two WWII events at the Florida Gulf Coast RR Museum so far and have another one scheduled for November. We call it "Von Kessinger's Express" and it is a fictional episode that "could have happened" which involves re-enactors of U. S., British, German and French Resistance forces. It also makes the passengers on the train part of the action.

When visitors arrive, they are issued their "papers" by German troops who have commandeered the train under German general "Von Kessinger". It is not done tongue-in-cheek and is considered an educational event. Both the Germans and Allies have camps with a wide variety of equipment, including all types of weapons, vehicles, equipment, etc. The train is decorated as a French train in Normandy, circa 1944, although we do run diesels.

As the vistors wait to board the train, general "Von Kesinger" arrives in a motorcade, under guard, with his family. He has been ordered to take some troops and make a break from the Normandy area to meet with Rommel. The passengers play the part of French workers or civilians who end up on the train the Germans have commandeered. As the general gets out of his vehicle, a French Resistance member attempts to shoot him but the Germans get him instead. After that, the Germans order the passengers to board the train and the Germans are all armed. Von Kessinger surveys the boarding and then boards the train with his staff and the train departs. The Germans are on edge because the Normandy invasion has begun. The General attempts repeatedly to contact Von Rundstadt via radio to convice him that the invasion is real and to release the panzers to attack the Allies but the panzers are still kept in reserve.

As the train makes it's run, several scenarios are played out aboard the trian for passengers to see. Resistance members are discovered aboard the train and arrested. An Allied flight crew from a downed airplane is found along the tracks and picked up and paraded through the train plus they are interrogated by the Germans. The train then comes under atteck by the French Resistance and Allied paratroopers but the Germans hold them off and the train continues. At the end of the line, Allied troops attack in force and the Germans lose with the Allies taking over the train and turning it back with Von Kessinger and his troops now prisioners.

Along the way back, German paratroops attack the train and the Allies fight them back. At each battle, the train stops and the troops aboard the train get off and have a battle with their enemy. When the train arrives back at it's destination, more Gerrmans stage an all out attack but the Allies defeat them. In the end, general Von Kessinger is taken away, having lost not just battles but also his code book and other important papers. Each ride takes about two hours and all who have attended have said it was a great event.

The idea came from discussions with re-eactors here in Florida and they did these events as a way to support the museum. About 20,000 rounds of ammo were shot at each event and we had around 160 re-enactors take part in the most recent event.

In addition to the train ride, visitors can go through each camp, ask questions, and learn about WWII, the Normandy invasion, or more. There have been no complaints about the German re-enactors, who represent the Wehrmacht, Panzers, SS and even Gestapo troops. We do advertise the event as being realistic and not recommended for small kids because there is a lot of shooting and because of the realistic nature of the re-enactment. We have had machine guns, mortars, and a cannon used so far. We also give WWII veterans free admission to the event.

I made a video out of the first event and plan to re-edit it with footage from the second event which was enlarged and improved from the first one. It's titled "Von Kessinger's Express".

If you would like more infor about this, please contact me off list.

Thanks,
Jim Herron

Pity you're not in South Carolina. I'd start working with you offline right now!

(Does that answer your question?)

Both Steamtown and RR Museum of PA do special WWII reenactments. Here's a link to last November's event at the RR Museum:

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/visitors/seas ... troops.htm

They're doing it again this year, 11-5-2005 & 11-6-2005.

Wow, if that is half as good as it sounds, I'm impressed!

We've suggested a lot of ideas similar to this, but few seem to make it off the cutting-room floor.

My all-time favorite 'train robbery' event was on a deliberately-unnamed tourist railroad that did a memorable event with a train full of adult travel agents from the region. The 'robbers' came on board after riding horses alongside, demanded money, the agents sorta giggled and politlely ignored them, and the robbers then detonated a REAL 12-gauge shotgun (with blanks) INSIDE the coach, with the resulting very real screams, real smoke & real noise, with real hands up in the real air. Not recommended for the general populace, but I don't think ANYBODY in that car ever forgot that one!

They then 'blew the safe' in the combine, with real black powder. Yeah, it was loud, too.

There's just so much opportunity here to do something 'better' that actually ties into the history of your lines. We've found no shortage of theatrical talent at colleges, volunteer theatres, etc., too.

We have a WWII era Pullman Troop Sleeper under restoration in Portola. One event we have discussed is having re-enactors come in and portray young soldiers heading off to war on board the car. Visitors could come in and talk to them about their experience travelling to the war.

What a GREAT IDEA! I just saw my first WWII reenactment back in Januaray, and I was blown away by the detailed knowledge that everyone possessed. Their passion for history reminded me of my own, and I had thought that it would be great if we in the rail preservation community could do some joint preservation/reenactment events with WWII reenactors. Is there a list of the different reenacting groups around the country? I think it would be a good idea to pursue more of these events around the country as a way of promoting both hobbies, and to make for a richer historical experience for patrons of rail museums.
Chris Zahrt

As an active Civil War reenactor as well as a rail preservationist, I have been struck the similarities between the two interest groups, as well as by the interest in trains shown by many reenactors. Anything we can do to reach out to and work with fellow history buffs is going to benefit both interests. At a planning meeting last night for a reenactment, I learned that our Corp's Colonel was the son of a C&O employee, and that our General's wife is a semi-railfan.

Roaring Camp is among several places to have Civil War reenactors; seen those guys many times.

To be honest, the only place I've seen WWI and WWII machinery near a railroad was at Jacques Littlefield's in Portola Valley, CA! Littlefield stores his collection of tanks and other military equipment in a replica of some Baldwin outbuilding on his ranch. The railroad is nothing more than a 7-1/2" gauge live steam operation, but despite its size, there's some equipment used up there that's around 1941-45 vintage...

Littlefield is always on the Discovery networks and such, a truly amazing collection that has to be seen to be believed. If only the railroad was about 8 times larger...

This re-enactment with WW 2 as the theme is most intriguing. Maybe not something you'd do all the time, but once or twice a year. The VonKessinger's Express idea is good. I just happen to know where there is some European steam equipment to maybe do a "German train being captured by the Americans" version. There are some other issues we are working out before startup this season, but I like the sound of this.
LF

Thanks to everyone for your advice! Thanks especially to the two invites I've already gotten from other museums in my state!
What we'd probably do is just a semi-static display, with people milling around, guards at crossings and bridges maybe, trucks delivering troops various places, things like that. We shy away from the "Cowboys and Indians" aspect of it. Sure, an attack by SS troopers on a steam train on US soil sounds cool, but it's pushing the limits of a historical presentation history to vaudevillian limits. We don't go down that road. Think how many of you roll your eyes at a tourist RR operation with a "Wild West" theme. That's pretty much the way we'd look at a "fight for the train" scenario. We also shy away from having "Germans" around at all. We live in a painfully PC-oriented area of the country where folks dressed as "Nazis" don't fare very well.
What I'm looking for is a halfway decent portrayal of a RR operating unit in 1943/44, as well as the support combat troops that would likely be around. I've been reading through my copy of Field Manual 55-55, "Transportation Corps, Railway Operating Battalion," dated 4 Feb, 1944. It's actually a great overall guide to how a RR unit worked. If you ever find one, I recommend reading it. Really neat stuff.
Phil, thanks especially for that link you posted. That's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to show that other operations do such things!
Jim, I'm familiar with the "Von Kessinger's Express" events, having seen them on the websites of the group that put that on. I used to belong to that group when it was first founded, when I still lived in Florida.
The tourist operation I want to approach is this one:
http://www.ccrra.com/
It's really close by, it's a small operation with a great crew of friendly people, and they seem receptive to new ideas. They have sponsored Thomas the Tank Engine at least twice so they have some appreciation for "special" events. They are just putting the final touches to a very nice platform for passenger loading, around the tiny for Milwaukee Road Chehalis depot. Oh, the local Veteran's Museum is moving to a new building within 200 yards of where people board the trains. Now, our group refuses to have anything to do with that museum (those issues aren't relevant to this discussion), but the cross-interest that people will likely have once they get settled in as a neighbor to the RR, should create awareness of our intentions soon enough. I've brough this up with our group to get a feel for if they actually want to do this first. Once I get a show of hands, then I'll contact the RR to see what we'd need to do then.
Oh, the guy who founded our group is NOT net-savvy and therefore we have no website. But here is a site that has some info:
http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/FJ6/Friends.html
In the top group photo around the truck, I'm the third guy on the left, kneeling, if anyone cares to know…
Of course, there are two full-fledged re-enactment organizations in nearby Oregon that run around the woods, firing blanks. Maybe their "Germans" would lik to come take the train from some GI's from the same group after all? Hmmmmm…

Here you go:
http://www.geocities.com/ww2_links/societies.htm
I've been doing this for over 15 years. If anyone here ever has questions, feel free to e-mail me directly:
p51@hotmail.com
Lee

How about recreating the Andrews Raid on the Georgia Northeastern? Similar topography to the W&A, friendly operator with passenger experience. Now, where to find a few 1955 era 4-4-0s.......

dave

Make really nice to the B&O museum and the Nevada State RR Museum. (and get Ted Turner to film it....)