I'm in the process of making new signs for all of IRM's rolling stock. The text is easy to input, but I'd also like to include a copy of the road's herald on some signs. Short of scanning them in myself, is there any source on the web that has heralds available as .TIF or .jpg files? Thanks for any help you can provide.

Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

> I'm in the process of making new signs for
> all of IRM's rolling stock. The text is easy
> to input, but I'd also like to include a
> copy of the road's herald on some signs.
> Short of scanning them in myself, is there
> any source on the web that has heralds
> available as .TIF or .jpg files? Thanks for
> any help you can provide.

I don't know how big you want the images, but these sites seem pretty feasible:

1.) http://www.toltecimages.com/trains/heralds.html

2.) http://www.rr-heralds.rrdepot.com/logos.htm (scroll to the bottom of the page for the links on this page)

upacific@copland.udel.edu

Found some other links:

http://www.spikesys.com/Clip/herald.html

http://www.cannonballltd.com/heralds.html



bilburns1313@ameritech.net

My favorite are Rail Fonts, which you can use directly from Word or a similar program to insert railroad heralds onto your signs. I have used these extensively on the signs I have produced for Orange Empire Railway Museum.

Because they are set up as a font, and not a seperate image file, Rail Fonts don't make your files bigger, and they print out very nicely.

PS: I do not receive a commission from Rail Fonts, I just like their product!

Their web site is at: http://www.railfonts.com/

> Found some other links:

> http://www.spikesys.com/Clip/herald.html

> http://www.cannonballltd.com/heralds.html


Railway Preservation Resources
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

is there an agreed upon best type of sign - materials, posts, etc?

JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

> is there an agreed upon best type of sign -
> materials, posts, etc?

Dependent on many variables. Just got through a generation of cheap computer printed paper signs we will replace frequently while we work on total interpretive design plan. Cost is a few cents a copy. 20 generations per year is about a McDonalds lunch cost. They last lots longer of you laminate them but costs escalate to an Outback dinner with a pint of Guiness.

I have seen enameled sheet metal signs at antique auctions that have lasted a century.

The ancient world carved stone signs which are in part still legible today.

Vinyl stick on lettering is good for a few years. Silk screened metal also. Painted wood? Somewhat dependent on exposure and climate.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> is there an agreed upon best type of sign -
> materials, posts, etc?

We've tried quite a few different things. For the indoor items, we've long used simple typed sheets, but the problem is the type face is so small as to be hard to read. I consulted several textbooks on museum signs (yes, someone actually has studied this!), and they recommended a MINIMUM type size of 1/2", with larger being better, for any sign where the reader is more than a few feet away.

We've tried engraved laminate (fragile, particularly in the cold, and a pain in the a** to make without one of the fancy computer-controlled systems).

Enameled metal is great, but VERY expensive. Ditto for silk screening.

Our current solution is custom-cut vinyl on aluminum sign blanks. You can purchase various grades of vinyl; I've been buying the one that is guaranteed for 7+ years outdoor exposure (which should translate into almost forever indoors). Of course, that doesn't account for the little buggers who like to pick off the individual letters...

All of the equipment signs are 24x36", in a standardized format. The top lines give the road name and number, and the builder, year, and general type (e.g., caboose, interurban coach, etc.), in 1" type. Below that are several descriptive paragraphs on the railroad or type of car, including when/where/how we got it and noting if it is operational. The description also includes the "quality" items--i.e., first, last, only, biggest, smallest, etc.--that make the equipment significant. All of this text is 2/3".

All sign blanks are white baked enamel. Each type of equipment uses a distinctive lettering color, so that perhaps the visitors will get the message of what the car is. So, all freight cars are in red, standard passenger in Pullman green, electric in electric blue, steam is black, work equipment is orange, etc.

If anyone wants a sample, I can probably e-mail one of the signs in final format.

So far, I've made 140+ equipment signs, plus another 40-50 signs on general railroad info to post around the property (e.g., railroad standard time, braking systems, whistle signals, etc.). I'm getting pretty good at it...but the smell of vinyl in my basement (where I tend to make these at 2 or 3 AM) is overwhelming!


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

> Our current solution is custom-cut vinyl on
> aluminum sign blanks. You can purchase
> various grades of vinyl; I've been buying
> the one that is guaranteed for 7+ years
> outdoor exposure (which should translate
> into almost forever indoors). Of course,
> that doesn't account for the little buggers
> who like to pick off the individual
> letters...

Easy, but slightly more time-consuming solution: Cut your vinyl letters in reverse and use it as a paint mask. Use a small roller to fill in the mask, let it dry, then peel the vinyl off. Apply a layer of clear-coat spray and you have a sign that will last for quite a long time. It's worked very well for us, as we had the same problem with people picking off the lteers.
Also, depending on the type of vinyl, you can actually spray clear-coat over the vinyl, which makes it a lot harder to pick off the letters.

posanu@hotmail.com

THANK YOU. Does putting the signs on poles on speeder wheels work well with equipment that moves around? How best to mount on cars?

JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

> THANK YOU. Does putting the signs on poles
> on speeder wheels work well with equipment
> that moves around? How best to mount on
> cars?

For equipment that won't move (or move often), we're just using two lengths of chain, doubled over a handrail or similar, with a bolt through a hole at each corner of the sign and through the end loops of the chain.

For moving equipment...well, we're still debating. One department has put together a "spring clip"--kinda like a hairpin--so a sign can be slipped on and off a handrail. We talked about magnets, but getting ones strong enough and still reasonably small is expensive and not practical. For stuff that moves often, we may just put it inside the car, so it's visible through a window.

But the bottom line for me is that I made the signs, and mounted them on the steam locos, but every other department is on its own (i.e., "not my job, man") and can come up with whatever suits them best. That may involve some post-mounts, chain-hung, or even small c-clamps--whatever works, short of epoxy.


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

There has indeed been a lot of study of signs by museum aces, or "labeling" in museum-speak.

The most interesting approach to this I've heard of is from the new transportation museum being developed by the Western Reserve Historical Society at Cleveland. This will be built around the Crawford collection of antique autos and racing airplanes that has been at Cleveland since before WWII. That museum wasn't making it as a typical antique-car museum, in which there's a row of old vehicles with a sign in front of each. Kind of like a railroad museum.

Rather than call in the auctioneers, the Society elected to massively reinvest in the museum. The new concept is to group the artifacts into scenes depicting transportation and aviation environments from past times. What's radical is that there will be NOT ONE printed sign or label in the place. All interpretation will be directly from the artifacts themselves, usually by costumed play-actors. The only printed matter will be period items on display (as a train schedule, newspaper, advertisement, or auto-dealer window sticker).

The railroad items in this scheme will be focused on Cleveland, the NYC, and Collinwood. An E-8 and RDC have already been purchased. The E-8 will be painted in lightning stripes, and will be a centerpiece of the museum. The RDC will be equipped with a slant nose and two jet engines to replicate the NYC jet-powered car. An actor will play the part of the colorful NYC engineman who ran, or piloted, the 187-m.p.h. Budd car, complete with crash helmet. This is quite a bit more engaging than a GP-7 with a placard wired to the handrail, and is effective at communicating the subtext of the exhibit, which is, "It's big fun to innovate with transportation hardware, and once upon a time people did it right here in Cleveland."

The theory behind this is that people don't respond to or retain printed matter, but learn best from interaction with other human beings. Depending on their ability to perform for an audience, your volunteer guides may or may not qualify in this last regard.

This approach is hugely labor-intensive, and not suited to every museum. But we should ask ourselves, "Are signs the best we can do?"

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
Michigan State Trust for Railway Preservation, Inc.
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867-0665

froboma@mdot.state.mi.us

> Easy, but slightly more time-consuming
> solution: Cut your vinyl letters in reverse
> and use it as a paint mask. Use a small
> roller to fill in the mask, let it dry, then
> peel the vinyl off. Apply a layer of
> clear-coat spray and you have a sign that
> will last for quite a long time. It's worked
> very well for us, as we had the same problem
> with people picking off the lteers.
> Also, depending on the type of vinyl, you
> can actually spray clear-coat over the
> vinyl, which makes it a lot harder to pick
> off the letters.

You could also letter the sign as usual with the vinyl letters, and spray over the whole thing with a contrasting color. Then pick the letters off yourself. Beat the "little buggers" to the punch as it were. You could use cheaper letters too, as they wouldn't need to be the 7-year variety.

rwilkes@saturn.vcu.edu

What a great idea! Truely inspired. A fresh way to interpret history. Sounds like a winner to me.
Radical thinking like this is difficult to pull off, too "dangerous" to the "we've always done it this way" sort of thing.

Not a car museum, not an airplane museum, not a train museum,.....a history museum!

> The most interesting approach to this I've
> heard of is from the new transportation
> museum being developed by the Western
> Reserve Historical Society at Cleveland.
> This will be built around the Crawford
> collection of antique autos and racing
> airplanes that has been at Cleveland since
> before WWII. That museum wasn't making it as
> a typical antique-car museum, in which
> there's a row of old vehicles with a sign in
> front of each. Kind of like a railroad
> museum.

> Rather than call in the auctioneers, the
> Society elected to massively reinvest in the
> museum. The new concept is to group the
> artifacts into scenes depicting
> transportation and aviation environments
> from past times. What's radical is that
> there will be NOT ONE printed sign or label
> in the place. All interpretation will be
> directly from the artifacts themselves,
> usually by costumed play-actors. The only
> printed matter will be period items on
> display (as a train schedule, newspaper,
> advertisement, or auto-dealer window
> sticker).

> The railroad items in this scheme will be
> focused on Cleveland, the NYC, and
> Collinwood. An E-8 and RDC have already been
> purchased. The E-8 will be painted in
> lightning stripes, and will be a centerpiece
> of the museum. The RDC will be equipped with
> a slant nose and two jet engines to
> replicate the NYC jet-powered car. An actor
> will play the part of the colorful NYC
> engineman who ran, or piloted, the
> 187-m.p.h. Budd car, complete with crash
> helmet. This is quite a bit more engaging
> than a GP-7 with a placard wired to the
> handrail, and is effective at communicating
> the subtext of the exhibit, which is,
> "It's big fun to innovate with
> transportation hardware, and once upon a
> time people did it right here in
> Cleveland."

> The theory behind this is that people don't
> respond to or retain printed matter, but
> learn best from interaction with other human
> beings. Depending on their ability to
> perform for an audience, your volunteer
> guides may or may not qualify in this last
> regard.

> This approach is hugely labor-intensive, and
> not suited to every museum. But we should
> ask ourselves, "Are signs the best we
> can do?"

> Aarne Frobom
> The Steam Railroading Institute
> Michigan State Trust for Railway
> Preservation, Inc.
> P. O. Box 665
> Owosso, MI 48867-0665


http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains
oldtimetrains@rrmail.com

Is there a website for this museum? Sounds interesting...

What a great idea! Truely inspired. A fresh
> way to interpret history. Sounds like a
> winner to me.
> Radical thinking like this is difficult to
> pull off, too "dangerous" to the
> "we've always done it this way"
> sort of thing.

> Not a car museum, not an airplane museum,
> not a train museum,.....a history museum!


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

At Orange Empire we have developed signage that seems to work well for our moving equipment.

We prepare a 11"x17" ("B" size) ink jet printed discriptive sign. Then this is laminated into a clear mylar cover along with several slim magnets on the back side. The magnets then hold the sign to the side of steel cars. Without magnets the same signs can be attached to woodsided cars with map pins. The signs can be removed, relocated, and replaced whenever we want to.

In addition, we have similar signs that say something like "Pardon my appearance, car under restoration" and "Please do not enter: restoration in process." Also signs reminding no food or drinks in passenger cars on the excursion trains.

Brian Norden

bnorden@gateway.net