I seem to remember Steamtown having a bunch when they were still in Bellows Falls. Did they make the trip to Scranton?

Many were cut up in Bellows Falls. A couple did apparently make the trip to Pennsylvania.Supposedly, the two shells that remain at Tobyhanna Army Depot, along with a couple other Steamtown Foundation leftovers, are the target of preservation efforts by one of the LIRR G5 groups (35 or 39).

Disclaimer: I am afraid I am in my scam-busting mode today. Some of what I am saying may seem to be a bit far afield however it has bearing on Somerset Terminal’s ability to perform. Further, what I am saying about the company is all in the public domain or has been taken from Bankruptcy Court and STB records which are public. Also please note that I am not advocating scrapping the Ping-Pongs or any of the other equipment. I would prefer to see it preserved if possible. I would be very circumspect about this announcement. I have been watching Somerset for a while because I believe Somerset and its promoters merit their own several chapters in FRAUDS, CHARLATANS, AND PSYCHO-CERAMICS, A HISTORY OF SHORTLINE PROMOTION IN THE EARLY 21ST CENTURY. Somerset and its primary principle have a considerably less than stellar track record and absolutely no corporate credit or credibility. If they are indeed able to do anything at all I will be quite surprised. My belief is that if Somerset has the assets to do this then those assets should be used pay some of their debts.First – The very short version of Somerset Terminal. Somerset did not formally go bankrupt. They acquired the northern two miles or so of the Delaware and Bound Brook from Joseph Horner, then the owner of Bridgewater Resources (BRI, the operator of the transfer station) with a backdated deed, never operated, built up debt in the high six figures, and then turned the property back to Horner in exchange for release of some of the debts. Horner then turned the property over to another operator. Somerset then filed suit to have the property returned. (United States Bankruptcy Court for New Jersey, Horner et al v. Somerset Terminal Railroad Corporation 02-05425-RTL) This suit is still being heard even though neither Horner nor Somerset are still parties to it. Not withstanding the transfer of the property and the filing of the suit, Somerset sold the operating rights to the Morristown and Erie. The M&E filed a notice of an Operating Exemption which was immediately contested by the property owners. This was heard by the Surface Transportation Board in late 2002 (FD 34267 Morristown & Erie Railway, Inc.–Operation Exemption–Somerset Terminal Railroad Corporation). The board granted the M&E’s exemption conditioned upon the court finding that Somerset did in fact own the property and very clearly stating that they were not ruling on property ownwership. Both Somerset and the M&E have tried unsuccessfully in various venues to claim that this STB decision clarified the property ownership. The M&E went so far as to attempt to obtain state rehabilitation funding on this basis. Somerset never operated the Bridgewater property. They did arrange for several cars to be placed there for a neighboring industry. However they never paid for the switching costs which were borne by BRI and it appears that the arrangement was made in consideration of a personal loan to the principal masquerading as an investment. This is the basis of at least some of the claims. My understanding is that the creditors have not pressed their claims as there are no assets. The total claims arising out of Somerset appear to be in the high six / low seven figure range. This is without calculating the costs of the collateral damage and the litigation over the property ownership. The principal of Somerset has regularly made claims of ownership or leasehold of properties and equipment which he has no connection with. His claim of an operation in New Jersey Transit’s Dunnellen yard using Chesapeake’s Whitcombs comes to mind. The smaller investors in Somerset, along with the employees who had been offered participation had been told that Somerset was being backed financially by a major logistics firm in the area and that there were contracts in place with several customers. The logistics firm was unaware of any such backing and none of the customers had made any commitment. A pre-Somerset venture called Railway Express Intermodal ended in an investor’s suit and still has outstanding judgements. Somerset’s principle was jailed briefly in Union County about two years ago on a bad cheque charge after he wrote cheques against a closed Somerset company account and refused to make good on them. I believe he was given a conditional discharge. He surfaced before the STB as CNJ Rail several months ago with what could at best be called a creative claim on the D&H Rights on the Southern Tier between Binghamton and Buffalo. That was discussed at length in the New York State Railfan Forum at Railroad.net and need not be repeated here.Second – Removal of the equipment, even by scrapping it, is not a simple job. I will concur with EDM’s comments and add that when I looked at them some twenty-five years ago I decided that the headaches outweighed the reward for removal. He has described the caboose as “Kindling”. That at least allows for a removal by hand and reassembly/restoration. The other two cars will be much more difficult to remove over the road and I have serious doubts that Transit will even consider allowing them to move on their own wheels. The Ping-Pong Pongs, if indeed they are going to be scraped in place, will present their own set of problems as the cutting and removal will have to be done without fouling Transit. Not impossible, just difficult. In the real world, as in preservation, “difficult” is an effective euphemism for “expensive”.Third – The cars themselves. My understanding is that they were offered to all of New Jersey’s historical groups on an “If you can get them out of here they are yours” basis and nobody took them. I can understand the lack of interest in the Ping-Pongs because of a lack of a connection to New Jersey however that would not apply to the Jersey Central cars or the caboose. The Ping-Pongs were a low-end design to begin with and were worn out when they were sold by the Long Island. At the time that I looked at them Project 39 had been told by the LIRR that this type of car would not be allowed to operate on their lines due to the truck design. Given their age and condition I would be very hesitant to use them in anything other than a static role.What we seem to have here is a company with a very checkered history, announcing that it will do what nobody else has been able to, to save cars that nobody seems to want.rev66vette caught what may be the key problem in the plan when he said We can now add the tag line “with somebody else’s money” to the above paragraph. Taken in toto the proposal looks like Somerset’s plan is that the equipment will be given to him at least in part at taxpayer expense and that if this does not happen somebody else will be left holding the bag. Today’s exam question is: Who will it be left holding the bag? A. The property owner? B. The Town? C. New Jersey Transit? D. Some contractor who improvidently granted credit? E. Any combination of the above?GME

As someone vaguely familiar with the main participant of the Somerset Terminal operation, I applaud Trainlawyers assessment of the person in question, and his references. His relation of this "business" is right on the money. I don't consider this far afield. Just as we should use this forum to seek people that can assist in restoration efforts, I feel we should also know who to stay away from.

Hi,

It's been some time since the last Boonton, NJ, report. Have any cars been cut up or moved off site?

If not, as I suspect, are there any recent (2006) rumors on when the actual work of scrapping &/or moving will take place?

I'm particularly interested in news concerning the CNJ caboose.

Thanks, Roger

That would be good news, but I was under the impression these were MP54's that were lost from the original preservation collection. In any case, if these are P54's that are preserved have been removed from the rails. In my experience, that usually hastens deterioration. Static display allows water to filter into tiny recesses and collect.

I flunked geography, so excuse me. Is Boonton and Phillipsburg one in the same? Or does NJ have the dubious distinction of have two sites with many old cars in danger of being scrapped?

Later!
Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed;

Two different locations. The Boonton cars were part of a long defunct retail venture and have been rotting ever since.

Not sure why Phillipsburg came up other than it is the location of a small local museum with some historic cars, plus it was proposed to be the location of the NJ Tranportation Heritage Center. Some equipment slated to be in the NJ museum is also stored at a power plant (also rotting away) a few miles south of Phillipsburg.

And the cars in Boonton are all still there as of two weeks ago. Did a quick drive by and didn't see that anything had changed.

Chris

New Jersey has lots of locations with old cars rotting away.. take a trip to Winslow Junction or Rio Grande, NJ just to name a few more

The rumor that I heard is that the proposed NJMT is dead as the proverbial doornail.

The site had been whittled down from 50 acres to 5, which was seen to be insufficient for the museum as envisioned.

Never mind that the SofNJ is broke-as usual.

Dave

The rhetoric is getting a little heated here. Let's cool it down a bit, or the topic will be locked.

Thanks,

Kevin

I don't pretend to know every site, but here are the sites of passenger cars I know of in New Jersey:

Boonton (on the DL&W) - as discussed on this thread.

Ridgefield Park (on the NYC - West Shore) - yard for PSE&G power plant - URHS site. I have heard that the power company wants everything out of here, don't know the timetable.

Butler (on the NYS&W) - equipment owned by the NYS&WT&HS. Some ex-LIRR cars, some boxcars, 2-8-0 (kept indoors)

Morristown (on the DL&W) - former MU yard, URHS equipment, including at least one GG1.

Lebanon (on the CNJ) - NYC obs "Hickory Creek", a Frisco sleeping car, several baggage cars and some former Army hospital cars.

Whippany (on the M&E) - a number of private cars and cars owned by the Morristown & Erie/Maine Eastern. Also a number of cars of the Whippany Railway Museum. Note - a lot of passenger cars can be found almost anywhere along the M&E.

Winslow Jct. (on the CNJ) - cars owned by the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society

Rio Grande (on the PRSL) - the Cape May Seashore Lines equipment.

Milford (on the PRR Bel-Del) - another power plant storing URHS equipment.

Note: some of these sites can be viewed from public roads, others are VERY off limits (like the power plants).

> The rumor that I heard is that the proposed NJMT is dead as the proverbial doornail.

Folks, lets not confuse the NJ Museum of Transportation (NJMT), which operates the Pine Creek RR with the state transportation museum. Two different things. NJMT is indeed alive and well and trains will be running shortly. The web site should be www.njmt.org.

Thanks,
J.R. May

Yes, it is my understanding they did not get the acerage that they wanted for the NJ Transport Heritage Center, I believe there was a newspaper article about it in the Flimsies awhile back. I am not sure that killed the museum altogether.

The "power plant" is in fact a steam pumping station; efforts are being made to restore "Big Alice"; the Allis Chamlers triple expansion pumping engine. For some recent pictures; see

http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/gallery/album59

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project

Survingworldsteam;

Your a talking about the pump house north of Phillipsburg. There are no tracks into the facility and no RR cars / engines are stored there. Smaller equipment and vehicles (trucks) are stored there.

The passenger cars I am speak about are at a full fledged power plant south of Carpentersville. There are several tracks and a small fenced yard there where the cars are stored. It is remote and secure. The plant is located between the tracks and the Delaware River.

eldiner;
The NYS&W THS 2-8-0 is not in Butler at this time. I assume it is being stored on the Bel Del. Heard rumor of an indoor storage facility being built down there for it. Butler does have the cars you noted. Not sure what is in the enginhouse. Some of the NYS&W THS RDCs are stored in Rochelle Park / Saddle Brook too, which I have heard were recently vandalized.

Chris in Butler