There has got to be at least one firm in the greater Chicago area doing re-mirroring. Here in the Los Angeles-Orange County area we have found such firms.

Check with the antique car restorers.

Brian Norden


bnorden@gateway.net

> ARM and TRAIN fought this one and won--the
> reg doesn't apply.

That is correct. Steam engines and diesels built before something like 1952 or 1947 aren't required to have ditch lights.

> That is correct. Steam engines and diesels
> built before something like 1952 or 1947
> aren't required to have ditch lights.

The actual date is 12-31-1948. Here's the text of 49 CFR 229.125(h):
(h) Any locomotive subject to Part 229, that was built before December 31, 1948, and that is not used regularly in commuter or intercity passenger service, shall be considered historic equipment and excepted from the requirements of paragraphs (d) through (h) of this section.

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> To find a place to do re-silvering
> (actually, they use Aluminum) Pick up a copy
> of Sky and Telescope Magazine. In every
> issue are adss for the people who do
> resilvering of telescope mirrors.
> These are mostly parabolic reflectors in
> sizes from several inches to several feet in
> diameter!
> One source as of some time ago was P.A.
> Clausing, INC. 8038 Monticello Ave, Skokie,
> Ill. 60076 phone (847) 676-0330 Ther are
> others advertised as well. I believe you
> want rear silvering and not front surface
> silvering which is what is primarily used in
> telescope work.
> Sincerly, Keith (Retired locomotive Engineer
> and amateur astronomer)

Thanks for the advice. Clausing seems to be the only such firm in this area. I tried phoning them several times without effect; I've also sent email. I'll let you know what I find.

Hi,

Mirror resilvering sources are all over the place. Go to google.com search engine and type in mirror resilvering and you'll get a bunch of hits. Here's one where you can ship your item in to get resilvered for a reasonable price.

http://www.mirrorresilveringshop.com/

Tim
> There has got to be at least one firm in the
> greater Chicago area doing re-mirroring.
> Here in the Los Angeles-Orange County area
> we have found such firms.

> Check with the antique car restorers.

> Brian Norden


http://www.mirrorresilveringshop.com/
runner@i-55.com

> The actual date is 12-31-1948.

Does anyone know where this date came from? Or was it just arbitrary? I can think of a couple of steam locomotives built after this date that would then be required to have ditch lights. TVRM's #610 (built March 1952 and operating) and N&W #611 (May 1950 but not currently operating). Can you imagine the 611 with ditch lights??????

Anyone know of any others???

BTW, the FRA has yet to question us about ditch lights on the 610.



aw90h@cs.com

> Does anyone know where this date came from?
> Or was it just arbitrary?

When you consider that the GP-7 dates from 1949, and that there are still quite a few around in shortline service, perhaps that explains it.

Would not 2-8-2 NYSW 142, built in 1989, also qualify as a steam locomotive built after 12-31-48 ?


hpincus@mindspring.com

>Does anyone know where this date came from? Or was it just arbitrary? I can think of a couple of steam locomotives built after this date that would then be required to have ditch lights. TVRM's #610 (built March 1952 and operating) and N&W #611 (May 1950 but not currently operating). Can you imagine the 611 with ditch lights??????

I know the guy who participated in the RSAC process on this regulation. He's a trolley wacko and was in diesel hating mode at the time. His "museum" has several diesels, and he couldn't remember which was built when. So we're all stuck with his WAG.

There is no cut-off date like this for steam locomotives.

If you have a reflector re-silvered, check carefully for manufacturer's trademarks first. For example, all ESSCo ("Golden Glow") reflectors have a small keystone emblem etched into the back surface of the glass reflector somewhere near outer edge. Be sure to tell your re-silvering place NOT to polish it away.

> I know the guy who participated in the RSAC
> process on this regulation. He's a trolley
> wacko and was in diesel hating mode at the
> time. His "museum" has several
> diesels, and he couldn't remember which was
> built when. So we're all stuck with his WAG.

> There is no cut-off date like this for steam
> locomotives.

I pulled that paragraph from the FRA's website and it's extracted from the actual regulation. Anyone with a question should see their internal FRA compliance officer. I hadn't thought of the Chinese engines, but the N&W 611, TVRM 610 (and her contemporary GI 2-8-0's) did come to mind.

As to why they picked that specific date, the Federal Register for March 6, 1996 states, "FRA has been informed that these locomotives were no longer built after the end of 1948. FRA will therefore allow an exception for historic locomotives built before December 31, 1948." Citation is 61 FR 8887. The TRAIN/ARM negotiators may be able to shed more light on the subject.

The entire section has an interesting discussion. Try to open: http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bi ... n=retrieve

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Before we go jumping up and down about ditch lights on steam engines, see Paragraph 229.1:

"§229.1 Scope.

This part prescribes minimum Federal safety standards for all locomotives except those propelled by steam power. "

Steam locomotive are in the next part. Headlights come under Paragraph 230.86.

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Some confusion may have been avoided if Pete had put a comma after "steam locomotives" in his above post. The rule for steamers is the same as its always been, see below.

§230.86 Required illumination.

(a) General provisions. Each steam locomotive used between sunset and sunrise shall be equipped with an operable headlight that provides illumination sufficient for a steam locomotive engineer in the cab to see, in a clear atmosphere, a dark object as large as a man of average size standing at least 800 feet ahead and in front of such headlight. If a steam locomotive is regularly required to run backward for any portion of its trip other than to pick up a detached portion of its train or to make terminal movements, it shall also be equipped on its rear end with an operable headlight that is capable of providing the illumination described in this paragraph (a).

(b) Dimming device. Such headlights shall be provided with a device whereby the light from same may be diminished in yards and at stations or when meeting trains.

(c) Where multiple locomotives utilized. When two or more locomotives are used in the same train, the leading locomotive only will be required to display a headlight.

Not to nitpick, Pete. God knows I can't spell worth a darn.

Has anyone who has had re-silvering done seen any effect regarding the gold tone? We have had some done, and they come back silver. I thought that I heard that the golden glows had some gold in the silvering mix. Or is it in the glass?

> Has anyone who has had re-silvering done
> seen any effect regarding the gold tone? We
> have had some done, and they come back
> silver. I thought that I heard that the
> golden glows had some gold in the silvering
> mix. Or is it in the glass?

The yellow-green color is a result of adding uranium to the glass. The theory was that at night the tint imparted by a Golden Glow refector wouldn't blind an onlooker as badly as a clear glass reflector. It's also just about the same color as the "flash of green" you see just as the sun slips over the horizon.

They disappeared as "new stock" around 1942 because of the Manhattan project.

I've had several re-silvered, and they look band new (don't polish off the etched emblems). Tried to do it myself once, but it's too finicky a chemical reaction. And silver salts become explosive if you mix them with the wrong things. Places which specialize in silvering also have the special stuff to coat the silver film too.