> As mentioned above, a complete US
> preservation listing would be formidible,
> and has stalled with several previous
> attempts. The Canadian Trackside Guide is
> certainly a good model and quite accurate
> also. Down here, we might do better
> compiling on a state-by-state basis. Dave
> Kovl did a good job on Michigan several
> years ago, with at least three paperback
> books. For this kind of information, I think
> the internet is the only way to go, print
> usually being outdated as soon as it comes
> off the presses.

Strongly agree that electronic media, either directly on the internet or updatable on/from the Internet would be better.

I choose to install my database on the user's desktop, rather than accessed from the internet so that it could be used in the field. It can also be used in a kiosk or museum without an internet connection. Furthermore, a person with a digital camera could take a picture of a locomotive, and add it on the spot to the database. If you could run it off a CD, you couldn't update the data, so once again the user's hard drive was a better choice. (Besides, multi-GB hard drives are cheap these days.)

If you were starting from scratch, state-by-state would make sense, and we can utilize those resources that are state-by-state. But, as I mentioned before, we already have steam locomotive lists and a caboose list. Andrew Topan has a snowplow list. I know there are station lists available as well. I feel all of the above should be combined together, then a determination made of what "holes" exist in the combined data.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

If we were honestly going to do this project, it would have to handled in the same way you would any other documentation or restoration project, along with the usual requirements gathering you would do for a computer program if we are doing it electronically. There are others here much better suited to the groundlaying stuff, but in general, we would have to:

1. Find or create an umbrella organization to work under.
2. Come up with the funding. (Because of the nature of this study, the funding possibilities could be broader than say an actual rebuilding project.)
3. Next would come the project specifics. Will it all be internet-based, or available through the internet, with certain portions or even all of it downloaded to the user's hard drive. What will be the means for users to submit updates, and how they and the initial data be entered. What functionality should the program(s) for entering and using the data provide. (Search, sorting, grouping and viewing by type of item or state, multimedia, etc.)
4. Once the above is finished, you could then determine the number and type of computers and other resources you would need to support the effort. (i.e. internet servers, CD-ROM burners, network, ISP, printers, etc.)
5. Only now are you ready for the specifics. This would the design of the database itself. Tables, what fields they will contain, the length and type of each field, etc. If you don't do this first, you will be having to change it as you go along, and as one who has done this, it can get pretty messy.

Only after you have done this would you be ready to begin recieving data. It would be easy to skip everything, go straight to step 5 and set up a database online; Yahoo Groups (groups.yahoo.com) give you the ability to create and populate databases online. But without all the above, the results would be chaotic and trusted by no-one.

There are a couple of other things I have learned as well, but I will keep those to myself until a formal process is underway.

But the main thing will be support from the preservation community for such a project. We all are so familiar with the in-fighting that occurs in this industry, and who has not experienced devoting time and hard-earned money into say restoring a steam train, only to find it running only half-full with everyone else wanted to photograph it trackside for free. If people aren't willing to claim ownership and buy into the project (in usage as well as hard dollars), there is no sense in going any further.

This is still a "hobby gone mad" for me, so I have not been able to attend an ARM/Trains Convention. But perhaps the above would be a good topic of discussion for a group at such a conference; you would certainly have a lot of key players there already.

-James Hefner
-Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> For the last two years or so I have collected rosters off the internet by searching on museum sites. To this point I have collected them in a notebook thinking that one day....Well anyway.

Two thoughts. Most groups have devised their own page format and standard for the info provided. Some are tabular, others are long flowing narratives. Some have pictures, some don't. Maybe someone could come up with a standardized format that everyone could use.

Second not every group that has a web site includes a roster. that could be both because of size or complexity issues. Again a standardized format that could be added to a groups web site and then merged with others.

I hope that those groups that do not have rosters on their web sites could be encouraged to work on providing including that info in the future.

I would be happy to work off list with others who would like to come up with a format to try.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained
Tim Andrews

andrewstim@prodigy.net

> I hereby make my first nomination for a
> Railroad History Database Grant Award:

> Would whatever Powers That Be that
> eventually accept the challenge I made above
> please consider making a grant to Brother
> Hefner to purchase the rights to his
> database and integrate it (along with J.
> David's work, after a similar grant to him)
> into said database online?

My last comment on this thread, I promise. :)

I don't think Mr. Conrad or myself are expecting a grant from anyone. But if you think our work is worthwhile; then buy his books, and/or buy one of my CDs. How many railroads would still be here if instead of thinking "one of these days I'll ride ole ..." we rode it instead?

So much of the preservation scene is taken for granted; we think think "it was here yesterday, it is here today, it will be here tomorrow." But things happen, bills need paying, and if there is no support, it may NOT be there tomorrow.

If even a fraction of the folks who read this thread bought one or both, we would be both be delighted. (The pages are falling out of my Directory, and all but 20 engines in the back are either highlighted (matched) or struck out (scrapped).)

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

James,

Don't forget I have a number of cars listed on my website. If anyone needs help with creating an online database for this, I am willing to lend my assistance. I already have a similar site up and running in RumorWeb.

-=Andrew=-
> Strongly agree that electronic media, either
> directly on the internet or updatable
> on/from the Internet would be better.

> I choose to install my database on the
> user's desktop, rather than accessed from
> the internet so that it could be used in the
> field. It can also be used in a kiosk or
> museum without an internet connection.
> Furthermore, a person with a digital camera
> could take a picture of a locomotive, and
> add it on the spot to the database. If you
> could run it off a CD, you couldn't update
> the data, so once again the user's hard
> drive was a better choice. (Besides,
> multi-GB hard drives are cheap these days.)

> If you were starting from scratch,
> state-by-state would make sense, and we can
> utilize those resources that are
> state-by-state. But, as I mentioned before,
> we already have steam locomotive lists and a
> caboose list. Andrew Topan has a snowplow
> list. I know there are station lists
> available as well. I feel all of the above
> should be combined together, then a
> determination made of what "holes"
> exist in the combined data.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


RumorWeb
abrandon@foothill.net