If a restorationologist is ethically required to repair a boiler with rivets, even though said rivets are covered by jacket and lagging...
is not lagging said boiler with asbestos also essential to maintaining the "Historic Fabric" of the artifact?
Purely hypothetical question, of course....

I think there are certain limitations to how far one could go to preserve the "historic fabric" of an artifact. I mean, yes the boilers were riveted, but even during the steam era, there were welded repairs, and even welded boilers (C&O 2789). Furthermore, you do have an issue with safety. After all, one does not use lead paint, ride on the footboards, or use push poles, even though they are considered part of the historic fabric of the operation of said artifact. In the end a balance must be achieved. If restoration to operation would destroy a large amount of the artifact's historical significance, then don't. Some things are best preserved by static display, while others are best preserved by restoration and operation. In the end, if any changes are made, good documentation is key so that future generations know what is original, and what is not.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> If a restorationologist is ethically
> required to repair a boiler with rivets,
> even though said rivets are covered by
> jacket and lagging...
> is not lagging said boiler with asbestos
> also essential to maintaining the
> "Historic Fabric" of the artifact?
> Purely hypothetical question, of course....

And if a crown sheet drops in the forest and nobody is there to hear it fall, did it make any noise and was it from Rhode Island?

Maybe we should start a steam pilosophy list.

Dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

> If a restorationologist is ethically
> required to repair a boiler with rivets,
> even though said rivets are covered by
> jacket and lagging...
> is not lagging said boiler with asbestos
> also essential to maintaining the
> "Historic Fabric" of the artifact?
> Purely hypothetical question, of course....

And if a crown sheet drops in the forest and nobody is there to hear it fall, did it make any noise and was it from Rhode Island?

Maybe we should start a steam philosophy list.

Dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

> Maybe we should start a steam pilosophy
> list.

Wow Dave. that is a deep thought.

As far as the philosophy goes we already spend time sitting around drinking coffee and other tasty beverages. All we have to do is change the subject right?

Paul

pfdx@aol.com

do they drop the bomb everyday in Japan as part of the museum there?

Come on!


JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

Dave,

I propose we start a new board and entitle it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive Maintenance".

-Angie

Ladypardus@cs.com

Angie-

Personally, I think we should have a separate yet just as important board "Zen and the Art of Wood Car Restoration."

TJ

> Dave,

> I propose we start a new board and entitle
> it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive
> Maintenance".

> -Angie


Port Huron Museum
peremarquette@hotmail.com

There's the stuff we save and the stuff we use. A minimalistic approach is not restoration but conservation which entails simply stabilizing the artifact whether it be a piece of paper or a locomotive and protecting it to slow down deterioration to the maximum extent possible.

Restoration approaches vary for practical, ethical or legal reasons. Legally, we don't use asbestos anymore in the USA since it is carcenogenic here. It isn't carcenogenic in Canada so maybe they still use it? Don't know....but they also still have good lead paint I think.

Anything we run will get used up in service and given fiscal, ethical, legislative and practical realities we had better make friends with compromise or risk insanity.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Would that be from a certain "mountain" in Rhode Island?" (Heh, heh)

As regards vitamin A. Most of those who have been adversely affected, upon further investigation, are those folks who worked in asbestos manufacturing for 50 years, smoked two packs of Camel shorts since the Coolidge administration, and, suddenly, in their 70's, started suffering from respitory illnesses.

Much hubbub about nothing, which is typical of our Federal Regulators.

lorija799@aol.com

> Dave,

> I propose we start a new board and entitle
> it "Zen And The Art Of Locomotive
> Maintenance".

> -Angie

To keep the historical flavor to it, how about "Zen and Now"???

Dick

Dave has a real point here. I keep thinking about
the last topic which came up at the closing
dinner of ARM/ TRAIN about what tourist railroads
can learn from museums and visa-versa. As the
director of the R.R. M. of PA put it, "I don't
have to be a railfan to be the director of a
railroad museum." Like it or not, those in the
museum field have different priorities, and god
bless them for doing so.

I'll give you a real example; we at the Port
Huron Museum really struggled with what to do for
our baggage/ combine car display. After trying to
purchase the Henry Ford recreation combine of 1929(which was vailable for "loan" from a gentleman in Utah for as much as we have spent restoring
out current car) we tracked down a former GTW
combine in Akron, thanks in large part to the
quick-thinking of the guys at CVSR.

The car's condition, was, well, BAD. It had
suffered greatly over the years, and had about an
8" sag on one side and a 1 foot sag on the other.
Her insides were gutted, as she had been used as
a hobby shop in Akron. As we would later find
out, much of her wood-bracing on the sides was
shot. The guys at CVSR pretty much told us that
if we didn't grab her in a timely fashion, she
would to be TORCHED.

We did not want (and could not justify) a full
restoration of the car. Instead, we did a
replication; we were happily surpised to find her
roof's structural members were in great shape:
the floor was really bad, as was at least 1/3 to
1/2 the crossbrasing on the sides. We made the
gut decision to save as much of the original
fabric as we could, and splice in new wood with
the original. As this is an outdoor car, we then
went with a seamless-rubberized roofing material,
and sheathed the exterior walls before replacing
them with as close to the original tongue-and-groove as possible. Since exactly four of the
original sash windows were available by the time
we acquired the car, we replicated their look as
best we could with solid windows with mullions.
We completely restored the clerestory section,
and from two existing pieces of the etched glass
that were left, recreated the roughly 40+
clerestory windows with a more modern glass, with
a vinyl-like material that matches the design of
the original etched glass exactly. The interior
will be broken into three sections; 1.) a
recreation of the cars original 8-seat smoking
section 2.) a gift shop area in the center 3.) a
recreation of the baggage area, with a display of
what Edison's laboratory MAY have looked like on
booard, complete with galley-proof printing press.

Anything that was original on the car (and there
wasn't much beyond hardware)that wasn't re-used
has been saved and will be stored for those who
wish to research the car's history and
restoration. We have documented the entire
process of what we are doing. We will not operate
the car, and it will not be as built (as-built
was 58-seat coach). It is probably more
replication than restoration, but it boils down
to this; everything we have done is documented: a
VERY close sister is EJ&S #2 at Mid-Continent,
which they have decided to moth-ball for the time
being; and we plan to make sure that the public
visiting our museum realizes that while we don't
know if this is a car Edison worked in/ on, it
simulates the type of car that he did.

What does this mean? It means that anytime you do
a project such as this, the historical
significance of the car/ locomotive has got to
be taken into account, even though going in we knew this wouldn't be a car used for anything
other than display. I don't know if we would have
gone through with the project on this car if we
hadn't known about EJ&S #2. As it was, we spent
close to two years in the search/ documentation
of the car before we EVER removed ANYTHING. Maybe
comparing compromise in static wooden combines
and operating steam locomotives is comparing
apples and oranges, but as some point in each
case some SERIOUS thought needs to be put into what is being done with them, and more
importantly, HOW its being done.

Enough from me,

TJ



Port Huron Museum
peremarquette@hotmail.com