I have just read in the WCRA News that Canadian Pacific's first SD40,#5500, has been donated to the Revelstoke Railway Museum at Revelstoke B.C. by CPR. Apparently a new addition to thier building will be built to house the unit. It will be a good contrasting display to thier CPR mikado.
My question is: is this the first preserved SD40 or are ther others out there? It would seem that what we know as second generation diesels are getting a little long in the tooth and we should be thinking about preserving some good examples. I know there are some out there,but are we going to miss significant examples,or act to preserve them. I can think of many first generation diesels that didn't get saved,so perhaps now is the time to act through our various organizations.Any thoughts?

http://www.wcra.org
gferguson@aebc.com

It would
> seem that what we know as second generation
> diesels are getting a little long in the
> tooth and we should be thinking about
> preserving some good examples. I know there
> are some out there,but are we going to miss
> significant examples,or act to preserve
> them. I can think of many first generation
> diesels that didn't get saved,so perhaps now
> is the time to act through our various
> organizations.Any thoughts?

Can't say about whether or not its the first SD-40, but if it's any consolation the B&O Museum has a vigorous generation 1.5 and generation 2 preservation program in hand: they have the first GP-40, a GP-35, and SD-35, the Trains Magazine "all American" GP-38, and I beleive the "GM-50" anniversary GP-40-2 is tagged for future donation.


7002 and 1223 at Strasburg
eledbetter@rypn.org

> Can't say about whether or not its the first
> SD-40, but if it's any consolation the
> B&O Museum has a vigorous generation 1.5
> and generation 2 preservation program in
> hand: they have the first GP-40, a GP-35,
> and SD-35, the Trains Magazine "all
> American" GP-38, and I beleive the
> "GM-50" anniversary GP-40-2 is
> tagged for future donation.

Okay, is it that B&O/C&O had no GEs to preserve, or is there an EMD bias to the Museum? There were enough C&O U-Boats to matter. I recall they got one of the original U25Bs, but because it was the "wrong RR" (L&N) it soon left the property--traded or sold to a loco dealer, wasn't it?


lner4472@bcpl.net

> Okay, is it that B&O/C&O had no GEs
> to preserve, or is there an EMD bias to the
> Museum? There were enough C&O U-Boats to
> matter. I recall they got one of the
> original U25Bs, but because it was the
> "wrong RR" (L&N) it soon left
> the property--traded or sold to a loco
> dealer, wasn't it?

There is a bit of EMD bias in that parts are common across most of the EMDs, which eases life considerably for the Museum restoration and operating repair forces. More to the point is that the Museum's current acquisition policy is exclusively Maryland: B&O, WM or short line. That covers the WM RS-3 and some B&O and shortline Alcos and GE switchers, but no U series GEs and no C&O diesels for new aquisitions. What foreign-road 20C steam they have, they intend to hold on to, since 20C B&O steam is almost extinct by and large.

I admit that at the B&O Museum like everywhere else some strange decisions have been made--they did trade for a foreign-road FM HH switcher (MILW, I think?) which they intend some day to restore to stand in for a similar B&O unit, a decision about which I had my doubts.

Yes, the L&N U-boat was on loan to TVRM but was then sold to an equipment dealer in a collections rationalization move. Much controversy at the time. Theroetically the sale included a buy-back provision which could be exercised at a later date. Again, I have my doubts as to the wisdom of that one.

But mostly the policy makes sense to me at least.



7002 and 1223 at Strasburg
eledbetter@rypn.org

>More to the point is that the Museum's current >acquisition policy is exclusively Maryland: B&O, >WM or short line.

I"m sorry, but this I have a hard time buying. If this is so true, if they TRULY want only Maryland equipment, please tell me why the following MICHIGAN/ ONTARIO items are still in their collection, and why they supposedly have no interest in either trading or de-accessioning these items to a group in their home state/ province of Michigan/ Ontario?

Pere Marquette SW1 switcher #11
Pere Marquette Covered hopper #20054
Pere Marquette 40Â’ wood boxcar #88958
C&O Streamlined coach #1700, (Originally PM coach #135)
Pere Marquette Jordan spreader #GL-7

These have NOTHING to do with Maryland, and yet
I don't think you will ever see these items leave the B&O Museum's hands. Where's the "rational" in that?

TJG

peremarquette@hotmail.com

> I"m sorry, but this I have a hard time
> buying. If this is so true, if they TRULY
> want only Maryland equipment, please tell me
> why the following MICHIGAN/ ONTARIO items
> are still in their collection, and why they
> supposedly have no interest in either
> trading or de-accessioning these items to a
> group in their home state/ province of
> Michigan/ Ontario?

OK, I no longer volunteer at the Museum and have not for 6 years now, and so I am speaking without authoritative knowledge, but here goes.

I tried in the earlier post to carefully say "acquisition policy for new diesels" was Maryland only, not to say that the entire collection was being rationalized strictly according to those priorities.

I know that some of the items you list have been accessioned into the permanent collection because the represent rare equipment (the spreader) or are good examples of the type of freight equipment which ran in general interchange service during the steam/diesel era (the freight cars). PM-11 was accessioned becuase it gave the Museum a good way to talk about the steam/diesel transition story (it was PM's second diesel).

Last time I checked the 1700 was in the use collection not the permanent collection, and it might become available some day.

Anyhow, you are quire right that the Museum keeps all those non B&O artifacts, as well as C&O and Reading steam. On the other hand, they have moved out a GG-1, a Little Joe, and other odds and ends which didn't fit.

Is the collection perfectly rational? No, of course not. But they do have an acessions policy, a collections review policy, and a formal procedure for handling artifact accession and disposition, which is more than some folks can say.

I am sorry you were not able to secure the equipment you presumably wanted from them, but in my opinion that is not sufficient cause to blast their entire collections policy. However, reasonable people may differ.



eledbetter@rypn.org

> I tried in the earlier post to carefully say
> "acquisition policy for new
> diesels" was Maryland only, not to say
> that the entire collection was being
> rationalized strictly according to those
> priorities.

Actually reviewing my own words I did NOT say that--sorry, T.J.! But it is what I meant. The point is that policies for acquiring new stuff are more Maryland-oriented than policies for weeding out what they inherited from CSX in 1989 and 1991.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Erik-

Re-reading what I wrote, I probably exploded a bit myself, but initially it seemed like you were indicating that this was a long standing policy, which, from my experience anyway, it is not. I realize that much of that equipment is unique (your mentioning of the spreader is an example), but are these pieces not equally deserving of preservation within their home area? I also FULLY recognize that much of that equipment might not exist today if it hadn't been preserved at B&O; all that I ask is that when they begin to look at this rationalization policy, they consider other possibilities for some of their collection. Now
that they are a partner with the Smithsonian, I think a justifable and DEFINED mission statement is more important to them now then ever. Are their no B&O SW-1's left? Should not their be some more items in the collection with the "fireball" or "speed" WM lettering? In theory, it would tell a better story.

Again, sorry if it seemed as if I was attacking you, Erik, but you raised the issue, and I had to raise my issues with that issue ;-)

TJG


peremarquette@hotmail.com

almost every railroad museum needs to more clearly define their role in saving a part of railroad history. Certainly the local roads would be the first place to start. However, in order to tell the story, they have to collect non-local roads in order to have that type of equipment.

Someday, we will all rationalize our collections - and send stuff home, assuming there is a good home for it (I hope!)

JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

> almost every railroad museum needs to more
> clearly define their role in saving a part
> of railroad history. Certainly the local
> roads would be the first place to start.
> However, in order to tell the story, they
> have to collect non-local roads in order to
> have that type of equipment.

> Someday, we will all rationalize our
> collections - and send stuff home, assuming
> there is a good home for it (I hope!)

Bach to topic! Is CPR #5500 thie first SD40 to be preserved? Interesting stuff in previous posts,but still no answer to my question. Lets try again.


http://www.wcra.org
gferguson@aebc.com

Now that they are a partner with the
> Smithsonian, I think a justifable and
> DEFINED mission statement is more important
> to them now then ever. Are their no B&O
> SW-1's left? Should not their be some more
> items in the collection with the
> "fireball" or "speed" WM
> lettering? In theory, it would tell a better
> story.

There happen to be quite a couple B&O SW1's about. Wilmington & Western has ex-B&O 208/8408, but the line can ONLY handle SW1s and Alco S2's; I think a heavier switcher would be off limits. Another B&O SW1 is west of Baltimore at the Mt. Airy Cold Storage facility. If you really want that PM 11 so bad (and I think it's sheer accident tat Chessie/CSX donated an SW1 that happened to be a PM loco), get a more modern switcher or GP10, offer it to MACS, and then take their B&O SW1 and trade to the B&O Museum.

Of course, having said that, with any luck the MACS loco will be a PM or C&O SW1, too.......

lner4472@bcpl.net

> Another B&O SW1 is west of Baltimore at the Mt.
> Airy Cold Storage facility.

The SW-1 at Mt. Airy Cold Storage is a former PB&NE unit via the Brandywine Valley RR. The B&O engine (original no. 211) is now at Chambersburg Cold Storage, Inc. in Chambersburg, PA.

AMaples@aol.com

By my count, the CP 5500 IS the first SD-40 type to be preserved. Of course, (IMHO) our Canadian brethren have been always been way ahead of the American curve on this score. Witness the only TrainMaster, C-liners and others allowed to become extinct in the US.

On a related note, I witnessed a small group of C-39-8's on their way to become salvage-with the remainder rendered for scrap. Is it too early to consider preservation plans for one of these ?

> It would

> Can't say about whether or not its the first
> SD-40, but if it's any consolation the
> B&O Museum has a vigorous generation 1.5
> and generation 2 preservation program in
> hand: they have the first GP-40, a GP-35,
> and SD-35, the Trains Magazine "all
> American" GP-38, and I beleive the
> "GM-50" anniversary GP-40-2 is
> tagged for future donation.


74471.3045@compuserve.com

> There is a bit of EMD bias in that parts are
> common across most of the EMDs, which eases
> life considerably for the Museum restoration
> and operating repair forces.

It took me several days to see the irony here.........

A prime practicioner of the "stuff & mount" school when it comes to steam (The William Mason excepted), is choosing preservation diesels based on the availability of spares?!?!?!?!?!?

Gee, so it's "historical fabric" when it's steam, but "availability of spares to wear out" when it's diesel.........

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... >:-]

lner4472@bcpl.net

> A prime practicioner of the "stuff
> & mount" school when it comes to
> steam (The William Mason excepted), is
> choosing preservation diesels based on the
> availability of spares?!?!?!?!?!?

> Gee, so it's "historical fabric"
> when it's steam, but "availability of
> spares to wear out" when it's
> diesel.........

> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... >:-]

Difference: parts designed to be interchangeable vs. refabricating major structure. Saving the power assembly sleeves the came with the engine from the last time it was shopped tells you nothing you didn't already know about a 567--they're all the same power assembly sleeves; changing the boiler on a steam engine removes all trace of the original boiler fabrication techniques.

Sandy, you know the difference, you're just pullin my leg here!!!

eledbetter@rypn.org