Alan -

Yes. And a heck of a lot of different numbers too. As follows:

# 58 (for the Atlanta, Birmingham & Atlantic, later Wilmington & Western)

# 27 (also for the AB&A, then the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast)

# 7027 (for the Atlantic Coast Line)

# 6961 (for the U. S. Army)

# 4 (for the Virginia Blue Ridge)

# 300 (for the Mead Corp., then Valley Forge Scenic)

Six numbers. Pretty impressive for one locomotive. I am sure there are some other survivors out there that have had more. Aren't there?

Les

There was considerable question about that "roll over" and where it happened if it DID happen, when the W&W was rebuilding it for current service.

The loco was in VERY good shape when Brian donated it to the W&W. It basically needed to be taken apart to get what was needed for the new FRA regulations, then put back together for service. Now when you consider the loco is now 100 years old (BLW 1907), thats pretty intresting to think that something DIDN'T happen to rebuild the loco at some point extensivly.

From what I understand, some parts are indeed new on one side of the loco, leaning towards the 'roll over' theory..some parts don't match 'numbers' for the loco. There are parts that are numberd 27, which would lean to the AB&C time frame for new parts.

There was the theory that it rolled over during its stint for the US army and was rebuilt...but no one really knows for sure.

And you did forget one owner in that list, Valley Forge Scenic....as their number 300.

Tonight I'll have to dig out that (Carl Lathrop) 8X10 print of "58/27/7027/6961/4/300/58" that shows the engine in storage, it may have been taken later as Mead Corp. 300.

I don't remember hearing that the engine actually rolled over whille on the VBR. Somebody probably would have photographed THAT if it happened. Mr. Lathrop did state that the engine did not track well on the railroad and that lead to its short career on the VBR.

As far as a "mid life rebuild", I thought Georgia Locomotive overhauled the engine when it was acquired for the Army, I'm guessing during the first part of WWII.

Malcohm Ottinger owned the engine during the 1960's and it was rostered on the short-lived Valley Forge Scenic RR (as #300), but I didn't think that it operated there.

Please chime in Kurt (he is writing a history of the VFSR to be published in the future)

I remember the engine spending time on a siding in Phoenixville, Pa nose-to-nose with Ottinger's 4-6-2 425 (later of BM&R/R&N fame)

Speaking earlier of VBR 2-8-0 1. This was the shortline's only bought-new motive power. It was built by Porter. One of the Lathrop prints I have shows it later in life with a larger tender.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Thanks. I corrected my list to show the VFSR for the number 300. I would also correct my listing for the number 58 if the engine is now lettered for the Wilmington & Western. But I don't know if that is the case. There was nothing on their website that showed the lettering clear enough for me to know one way or the other. Perhaps they have it lettered for the AB&A.

Les

Dec, 2006:



On this trip, they not only let my 7-year old daughter in the cab, but let her blow the whistle, something I hope she'll remember for a long, long time.

Bob

Bob -

Thanks for the photo. I have corrected my numbers list.

Les

NHIR 7 lasted long enough to depart in 2 new ConRail gondola cars. I was conductor that trip and had the train continue to Warminster to try to get the station agent, Richard Short, to photograph the strange "double header"! I think the tenders may have been part of the parts swap. I heard a hearsay story that it was not owned by the railroad, so they couldn't keep it as a "jungle gym". Another rumor was that the flues had never felt a fire!

Last night I went through everything I have concerning the Virginia Blue Ridge Railway and 0-6-0 4, aka Wilmington & Western 58.

I dug out the photographs and correspondence I had received from Mr. Carl Lathrop in 1979. Mr. Lathrop was the son of VBR Superintendent Frank Lathrop. In 1980 he authored and published a soft cover book on the VBR (and the two lumber companies it originally served) titled "Sentimental Journey".

The B&W print Mr. Lathrop sent me of "VBR 4" actually does show the locomotive while subsequently owned by the Mead Paper Corporation. Checking the photo with a magnifying glass (the paper company couldn't have made the engine's lettering any smaller if they tried!) I did find a "300" on the cab and "Mead Corp." on the tender. Checking in the VBR book (which I should have done FIRST), a much smaller image of the engine was correctly identified by Mr. Lathrop as being Mead Corporation 300. D'oh!!

As for the locomotive "rolling over" while in service on the VBR, Mr. Lathrop's correspondence and book does make mention of an incidence actually taking place. The 4 was involved in a derailment on the curve at the bottom of the grade at Roses Mill. VBR engineer Marion Sprouse was quoted as saying "The locomotive turned over in the ditch". No mention was made to the severity of the accident or the amount of damage that the locomotive incurred. I'm going to guess that it was the kind of thing that sounded worse than it actually was. In any event Engineer Sprouse was further quoted as saying "I never liked Number 4, it had a funny motion to it".

I also came across a write up of the engine's 1998 return to operation on the W&W in the "Lineside Legacy" column of RAILFAN & RAILROAD magazine. The write up mentions that the locomotive "received a new firebox and boiler" as part of its rebuild for the U.S. Army. I'm not sure where that information came from or how accurate it is, but, if true, then that would help explain the locomotive's current excellent condition (considering that it's 100 years old this year).

...now getting the conversation back to the NH&I's G.I. 0-6-0's, Mr. Boylan's mention of the 7 leaving in two gondolas struck a bell in the ol' memory bank. I now remember, many years back, talking to an ex-McHugh/NHIR employee who (back then) was working for the BVTA's Penns Landing Trolley Line. He had worked on 9's overhaul and told of switching 7's wheels under 9 along with other parts. I don't recall anything about swaping tenders. I remember him saying 7 left for scrap in gondolas. Anyone know where she went for scrap? Fairless? Jimmy McHugh had dealings with Fairless, leasing the steel mill various diesel locomotives. The then newly-overhauled 0-6-0 9 ( I KNEW if I tried I could get this long thread back on topic!!) even went to Fairless as an emergency steam generator for the mill's locomotive shop.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

The write up mentions that the locomotive "received a new firebox and boiler" as part of its rebuild for the U.S. Army.

I wonder if this explains the MK style (weld on) flexible staybolt caps? Obviously not circa 1907!

..have been spending most of my "online time" in recent monthes on the tourist railroad forums at railfan.net. Lots of great stuff there and they even have separate forums for many of northeast US tourist lines, including the NH&I. Follow the below link to just one of the many topic pages on the NH&I. While this particular topic is about old views of NH&I ex-CN 4-6-0 1533 (you have to click on the links in the messages to see most of the views of the '33), if you scroll down the page you'll see a couple shots of interest. Kent Loudon posted a head-on of the '33 at New Hope in the snow. On the right is our subject G.I. 0-6-0's 7 (nearest to the camera) and 9 coupled nose to nose. Scrolling further down one will find a c.1978 shot of the 9 ready to runaround her train at New Hope. In the background is the '33 early in her own aborted overhaul. Back then the '33 was up on cribbing and was (unfortunately) locally known as "the steam locomotive with no moving parts". Since this photo was taken the '33 was lifted off the shop tail track and set back on her drivers and engine truck on an isolated piece of track.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

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