So... this showed up on a local website, with not a whole lot of verification. This might be either a McKeen motorcar copy or a very early predecessor. Railroad mentioned was the Sheffield & Tionesta, year is somewhere prior to 1913, owned by T. D. Collins (Collins Pine). Nebraska is Nebraska, PA, site of the mill and the engine terminal, now underwater at the reservoir at Tionesta, PA.

"Doddlebug"

Another engine that almost was added to the list of Collins' engines was a three compartment engine. It was called the Doddlebug and was designed by J.A. Veile and built at Allegheny Foundry in Warren, PA. This was sometime between 1905 and 1910. It was powered by a gasoline engine and had three compartments comprised of the engine room, freight and mail room and a passenger room. Mr. Veile tried to sell it to Collins but when they made the maiden run, there were some curves that slowed the Doddlebug to where it could not make any time, thus ending the sale to Collins. Mr. Veile tried to sell it to other railroad companies but no one wanted this train of the future. E.K. Small, along with the whole town, watched the Doodlebug come into Nebraska on June 13, 1913 and leave the following day for Warren.

Source: http://genealogytrails.com/penn/forest/ ... ory10.html

Here's a PICTURE of it: http://genealogytrails.com/penn/forest/ ... ory13.html



Doing a little McKeen research shows no easy connection between the McKeen design team ever seeing this car, but two of the early McKeen's were in Bradford, PA - one on PRR and one on Erie - only a few miles away.

From what you can tell on that fuzzy photo, it looks like a McKeen clone with a pointed nose, a power truck with INSIDE bearings and the larger wheel pair toward the inside, a center entrance, and a clerestory roof. Possibly wood. Amazing oval opera windows and arch windows in the coach section.

McKeen filed a whole lot of patents on motorcar design including the center entrance truss, truck design, etc, so either they saw the Warren-built car and protected themselves, or Veile copied a lot that appeared to be patented.

Anybody else ever come across this? This isn't in any railroad history I've ever seen.

What you have there is the Veile Gasoline Electric Car built by the Allegheny Foundry for the Pennsylvania Motor Car Co. in 1912. According to Interurbans Without Wires the Jamestown, Chautauqua & Lake Erie RR was going to buy four to six of the cars but after testing the first no more was heard about them.

The picture is certainly poor, but I was going to offer that it looks more like a Strang built vehicle than a McKeen. John T's reply I think is on the money.

Thanks!

its a period of the self powered railcar development including the galloping goose.
I think one of the interurbans used on the electric Norfolk Southern was converted to a gas railcar.

Veile also built two early automobiles here that only gained notoriety because the overheated and failed. Those were wider publicized, this car is virtually unknown.

It's most certainly NOT a McKeen, particularly if you study the McKeen power truck, which put the larger powered wheel pair in the front and had outside bearings.

But I'm still trying to decide if it was an 'original' early work done at the same time as the GE #1 and the McKeen development, or if it was a copy introduced between the first McKeens and the granting of the various McKeen patents for the power truck, frame, etc. While the patents were applied for about 1905, they don't appear to have been granted until about 1913. Certainly getting those patents granted would have put a damper on sales of this competing concept, even if it did work.

JC&LE and S&T were both near dead-flat water level shortline railroads, if it couldn't make it over those and struggled through curves it must have been epically underpowered.

You do have to say though, that it had a certain style about it.

You'll get ever so much more information if you spell the thing correctly. The man's name was VIELE.

See the Petroleum Gazette, vol XV no.9, where this car is the headline article.

https://books.google.com/books?id=HQkdAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA1&lpg=RA1-PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Picture is a bit clearer, too.

Likewise you will find out much more if you get the name of the company correct; it was the Pennsylvania Railway Motor Company... for example

https://books.google.com/books?id=Z182AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA304#v=onepage&q&f=false

Builder was indeed the Allegheny Foundry Company, indicated as primarily a manufacturer of tank cars. I have to wonder whether this was, in fact, the 'real' company that had all the workers (the PG article says 75, and a local paper from 1911 says over 50 in an article specifically mentioning the Pennsylvania Railway Motor Company).

I dimly remember a discussion of this car in the Yahoo Doodlebug list, and perhaps in White's book or one of Keilty's books, where there was some indication that the "Pennsylvania Railroad' had tested the car. Now that I see the correct full name of the 'corporate entity' (perhaps cunningly named, like so many contemporary Swiss-fake 'railroad' watches, to make potential customers think the PRR was involved in it) I think I know how reporters of the time, and general character of 'business' reporting and local boosting, might have produced the primary source material that led to such a conclusion, or perhaps better, confusion.

I agree with John T., Everything in the photograph matches the photograph of the Pennsylvania Motor Car Company Car built for the C&LE. This car is by far the closest thing I've seen to a McKeen Car, that's not one. Talking about patents, this would appear to be an infringement on at least 5 of McKeen's Patents. As to why I've never seen a report saying McKeen sued the company, I don't know. Heck, GE was making a lot more money off of their motor cars which were closer to the McKeen Design, I would have thought McKeen would have sued them....but as far as I can tell, he never did.

The name of the motorcar builder is close to that of a brand of automobile, but that is probably coincidence. The automobile manufacturer was Velie, according to Wikipedia, they started building autos in 1908 and survived until 1929. There is no reference to any railcar production. The Velie plant was located in Moline IL and the founder was related to the John Deere family. My dad had a collection of parts boxes from his days in the auto-wrecking field, and I think one of them was labeled for Velie parts. According to the entry, about 230 Velie cars still exist.

The plot thickens, with even more misspellings to throw off researchers...

A slightly later edition of the Petroleum Digest

https://books.google.com/books?id=iQcdAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PR8#v=onepage&q&f=false

indicates that there WAS a "McKean" car, manufactured in Omaha, 55 feet long with 200 hp engine, on site for mutual operation with the Viele car, a few months after the report given above. Surely someone here who knows their doodlebugs knows details of that car.

Can someone skilled in photographic analysis look at the two pictures of the car to see what the 'large' rear wheel of the lead truck actually is? It occurs to me that the original posted picture of the car might be partially retouched, by someone familiar with one of the 'steam motorcars' that used a small 2-2-0 as a 'pony engine' under the front of an otherwise unified-looking car -- and this would jibe with the report in Petroleum Digest that the whole engine arrangement in a Viele car was unitary and could be swapped out in "15 minutes".

I suspect that somewhere, in one of these period publications or an archive somewhere, there is going to be a description of the power truck arrangement. Has someone with skill looked up any of the number of patents attributed to Viele for motorcar detail design?

Short Line Doodlebug by Edmond Keilty
Jamestown, Chatauqua & Lake Erie RR #1 McKeen 200 HP Gas Mechanical
Possibly second hand
Possibly sold to Butler County RR

The McKeen cars had the leading wheels on the front truck larger than the following wheels. Veile was probably never taken to court because has car didn't last long enough to be a problem for McKeen.

I can assure you that the Viele Car was different from the McKeen Car, Photos of the C&LE McKeen are attached. The car was originally Hocking and Sunday Creek #1. It weighed 30 tons, could haul about 54 passengers. It also had a small baggage area in the front for the passengers.

If you have any questions about McKeen Cars in particular, or other motor cars in general, I may be able to answer them.

You guys are great. Thank you all.

I just stumbled over that S&T reference and they had the name wrong. But, I figured this group would likely figure it out.

That photo in Google books is fantastic, much clearer. Amazing. Looks like the power wheel/axle was spoked, inside bearing, and the car design was relatively elegant. A lot less "Jules Verne" than a McKean, but disturbingly similar.

The Youngsville & Sugar Grove was a streetcar line too cheap to ever put up wire, and they used a New York Elevated Railway Forney and two cars. The only equipment I've ever heard they ran were those three pieces and what appears to be a Mack railbus, so this is a bit of a local discovery I've never heard of. The 1910 date isn't bad either.

With a 250hp engine, you do have to wonder what they did wrong, unless the darn thing was Victorian heavy, which it may have been. As you'd expect from a foundry, it was a steel - not wood - car, but still went for a lot of 1910-era faux-wood design.