Thanks for writing in David. I can understand an operation that doesn’t want to strictly enforce the rules and literally kick people off the train if they aren’t being compliant.

It’s not only the unwillingness to confront passengers, it’s the existence of conflicting, overlapping regulations. The CDC says open air areas are places where masks aren’t required, the TSA (who I suspect hadn’t contemplated open air areas on transportation conveyances even exist) says nothing. Both apply to passengers.



I’d argue that you example presents a false equivalency. Amtrak employees are paid far more than volunteers or tourist railroad employees and likely have training. Also Amtrak by policy deboards non compliant passengers into the welcoming arms of law enforcement, not just out in the middle of nowhere.

Go tell your volunteers that they may have to forcibly deboard passengers and see how many sign up next weekend.

I am curious about what a rail carrier should do if they attempt to remove someone from the train for not wearing a mask; and the person claims they have a medical reason for not wearing one.

In my area, the store managers that I talked to all said they would post the sign saying that mask wearing was required by the State, but the store managers told me that they would not prevent a person from coming in without a mask.

They reasoned that a person might have a medical excuse to not wear a mask, and the store managers have no way to verify such an excuse is valid. They also told me that prohibiting mask-less entry can become quite confrontational, and they did not feel it was their job to engage in potentially dangerous confrontation in relation to the State’s rule on masking.

"but the position is understandable given the regulatory morass".

Has there ever been anything other than a "regulatory morass" coming from the gubermint ?

According to the latest data the "Covid 19" virus has a survival rate exceeding 99.5% for "older folks". And the survival rate for "young folks" is very close to 100%. The gubermint scientists have COMPLETELY ignored the number of folks that have acquired natural immunity. AND the test used to "diagnose" Covid 19 infections for the last year and a half CANNOT distinguish between Covid 19 and the FLU.... A year of data that mixed up the Flu with Covid...... Great work by the gubermint scientists.....

You have all been played by a bunch of power hungry folks that want you scared and panicked all the time and insisting on your "gubermint" to protect you from a naturally occurring virus that NO gubermint in history has ever shown the ability to prevent.

Virus's come and go, and older folks unfortunately pass away about 6 months earlier than "normal" when new viruses show up. Been there, got the T-shirt.

It is what is it and running around like chickens with your head cut off does nothing useful for anyone.

FYI, my Wife and I had a "bad flu" in January of 2020 (in a long like of "bad flu's" going back decades). Funny thing was this time my Wife noticed she "Could Not Taste Anything", that was odd, and 4 or 5 months later it was announced that the loss of taste/smell was one of the prime diagnostics for having a "Covid 19" infection.

Stop worrying, don't trust your lying gubermint and carry on....

Cheers, Kevin.

“It’s not only the unwillingness to confront passengers, it’s the existence of conflicting, overlapping regulations. The CDC says open air areas are places where masks aren’t required, the TSA (who I suspect hadn’t contemplated open air areas on transportation conveyances even exist) says nothing. Both apply to passengers. ”

The TSA has contemplated such. Open air areas on Ferry boats are considered open air.
A gondola car is open air. I personally don’t think a coach with windows that can open should count as open air... if the TSA and FRA agree that they do... they need to make that clear imho.

Total rubbish. https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... t-over-99/ https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

"To minimize the importance of vaccination, an Instagram post claimed that the COVID-19 survival rate is over 99% for most age groups, while the COVID-19 vaccine’s effectiveness was 94%.

The post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.

A problem with the post is that it improperly used the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s statistics for modeling pandemic scenarios, not for calculating COVID-19’s survival rate."

I wish this website had a mechanism to delete false claims and conspiracy theories like facebook. The true death rate is 1.9% in the US, we have had 647,000 deaths out of about 40 million cases, which amounts to around 6 million dead if everyone gets the virus.

“ So, I would propose this…. If a topic begins to devolve into bickering, preaching, shaming, agenda pushing, etc., the moderators should lock it. Information regarding the topic should be fact based and unbiased. Report the news and nothing more. Just the facts, ma’am.”

We’re getting close here folks. RYPN stands for Railway Preservation News. We are not the CDC, TSA, or FRA. We’re not here to create regulation, nor are we here to support it or tear it down. Please take a moment before clicking “submit” and ask yourself, “Is this really relevant to the topic?”

The government has provided guidance and placed requirements with regard to COVID precautions in effect that pertain directly to railroads. Like it or not, that’s the news until it changes.

A great mix of talent, knowledge, experience, and resources exist amongst the members in this forum. We don’t all see eye to eye on every subject but we do all share a passion for trains and railroading. Let’s not lose focus.

What news needs to be reported here? Who decides what is fact based and unbiased? What fact based and unbiased information does the topic of Covid lack?

That is the issue. Some people say it’s a fact that masks help and should be worn. Some say the opposite. Who decides?

Regarding that mask controversy you mention, I would assume that you don't want us to discuss that subject. There are lots of dimensions to the pandemic, the variant, the vaccines, the origin of the virus, whether or not the virus is natural, the virus spread rate and lethality, what it will take to return life to as it was pre-pandemic, and what the technical performance of masks actually is according to a scientific study-- all of that and more I would like to discuss. I would not expect us all to agree about the points of those topics, but there is no reason for bickering about them. So it is okay to discuss these details of the pandemic?

My last words on the subject.

The majority of participants on this forum have always been largely incapable of discussing difficult subjects that our industry faces. Throw in a general climate we find ourselves in today where everything is political, and people want to label as “misinformation” opposing viewpoints, we get the mess we find ourselves in the world today.

It doesn’t really matter what we personally think, as it’s not going to change anything with regard to mask mandates. Helping you all to better understand the regulatory confusion that a lot of operators find themselves in, even in the “real” transit and freight industry is about the best I can do.

In just about everything else the FRA solicits feedback from stakeholders about potential regulation. The mark orders were issued from a top down approach, originating from an Executive Order of the President, which is quite the opposite from an approach that seeks feedback from the railroad industry and labor. In many ways the enforcing agencies hands are tied to a degree.

This also marks the first real regulatory intrusion of the TSA into our industry, and we need to ask ourselves in the long run if that’s a good thing? If your organization is facing challenges in dealing with these regulations, it’s probably a good time to engage your elected officials. Discuss how the burdens have negatively impacted your organization.

The problem here is that COVID in general is such a hot button issue. Too many opinions. Too politicized. It seems it cannot be discussed in a calm, rational, thoughtful manner. We should discuss the pandemic rules as they apply to us but arguing the merits and then taking a hard right, or left if you prefer, into the ditch wastes electrons and calories and gets a twist in your knickers. It’s not COVID Preservation News, it’s Railway Preservation News.

Edit - I just saw David’s post while hitting the Submit button. All excellent points.

Since this thread has become just a continuation of the previous masking thread but under another name, I am closing it out. Thank you Brother Wilkins for your thoughtful and helpful insights into this matter.