The demise of America's streetcar systems is hotly debated when discussing a premeditated effort to buy 'em out and close 'em down. I am researching this for myself and at the link below found two interesting, but unsupported comments:

1.) "Many streetcar lines which had been profitable before, lost money for the first time." (After being acquired by American City Lines)

2.) "Since an electric streetcar lasted three times longer than a bus, buses had to be replaced three times more often."

Are these statements accurate?

Revisiting the American Streetcar Scandal
wyld@sbcglobal.net

... IMHO it's the best pro-tranist movie ever made and centers around the great streetcar swindle!

> The demise of America's streetcar systems is
> hotly debated when discussing a premeditated
> effort to buy 'em out and close 'em down. I
> am researching this for myself and at the
> link below found two interesting, but
> unsupported comments:

> 1.) "Many streetcar lines which had
> been profitable before, lost money for the
> first time." (After being acquired by
> American City Lines)

> 2.) "Since an electric streetcar lasted
> three times longer than a bus, buses had to
> be replaced three times more often."

> Are these statements accurate?

I doubt it.

First is profitability. While some operations may have had a positive cash flow, once you add in depreciation they would not be profitable. Depreciation is a reserve built into accounting practices to accumulate money for the replacement of capital equipment. So even if a operation covered the operating expenses, it would not have funds to upgrade equipment and trackage.

Second the replacement of equipment. I expect that the rail equipment replacement cost would be more than the cost of a bus. I don't know if this ratio would be three to one.

When National City Lines, etc. acquired the trolley systems the operations were often in need of new rail equipment and/or replacement of track and overhead. In most cases, if the street was repaved the streetcar company had to pay for the repaving (or even rebuilding) that portion where the rails were located. For an independent company this cost may have been more than buying replacement buses.

Similarly, poles and overhead installed in the 'teens or twenties and with deferred maintenance during the late twenties and through the thirties would need to be replaced. Again, buses would be cheaper.

Just some thoughts.

Brian Norden


bnorden49@earthlink.net

For the cities not affected by the "conspiracy" streecars faded away also. In Cleveland,OH, home of one of the most complete streetcar systems (building their own cars, large maintenance facilities etc) the situation became one of crowded streets with streetcars and autos in constant conflict. As in other cities PCCs helped with their ability to keep up with traffic. To pander to our love of the auto, downtown buildings were razed to make parking spaces and a new business ...finding space for your auto came into being. Folks from the streetcars suburbs quit riding the cars greatly reducing ridership. In deference to the automobile the two lanes occupied by the streetcars was given over because buses (including trackless trolleys) could zip over to the curb to pick up and discharge passengers. All this was happening way before the death of downtown. IMHO the death of the streetcar was caused by our preference for personal transportation with no consideration given to the final paving over of the country and completely redesigning the way we live to accomodate it.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> To pander to our love of the auto,
> downtown buildings were razed to make
> parking spaces and a new business ...finding
> space for your auto came into being. Folks
> from the streetcars suburbs quit riding the
> cars greatly reducing ridership.

One social change that affected the ownership and use of automobiles was the change to the five-day work week. At one time many industries and businesses had full or half-day work schedules on Saturday. As this change occured the population had more free time and owning an automobile allowed use of this free time for out-of-town trips. Once you owned a car you would think about using it to go to work and other errands.

Brian Norden

Kromer Cap Co. Inc.
bnorden49@earthlink.net

This has been discussed before, suggest you search. Both General Motors and Standard Oil were convicted of wrong doing in regard to buses replacing streetcars. This is fact.

> This has been discussed before, suggest you
> search. Both General Motors and Standard Oil
> were convicted of wrong doing in regard to
> buses replacing streetcars. This is fact.

They were found guilty of attempting to monopolize the sale of buses, tires, and fuel. They were not found guilty of removing streetcars. That's a big difference. Please read the legal decision.

The seeds for the demise of streetcars were sown back when the streetcar lines were first built. Almost all operating franchises contained a provision for a five-cent fare for the life of the franchise in addition to paving requirements. They did not allow for any fare increases.

During World War I the United States had severe inflation. At the same time automobile penetration was increasing cutting into streetcar ridership. The operating companies were caught between rapidly increasing costs, decreasing patronage, and no ability to increase fares because of franchise provisions.

In the early 1900's most streetcar company stock was a blue chip investment. It was a real widows and orphans stock. By the 1920's over half of the industry was in bankruptcy. Streetcar companies had changed from being very profitable to money losing operations.

The concept of service at cost was introduced. Five-cent fares and paving requirements in franchises would become void. Fares would be set by regulatory bodies. In theory fares would cover opearing costs plus a return on investment.

In practice fares were set by politicians. They realized that they would be dead meat at the polls if they raised fares too much. Fares were set at a level that barely allowed the operating companies to survive and no higher. Do you think National City Lines could have bought transit companies at such low prices if they were truly profitable enterprises?

In some cases, Baltimore comes to mind, the local transit company wanted to convert some streetcar lines to buses but their credit rating was so bad that they couldn't borrow any money to buy buses.

Many other things contributed to the demise of the streetcar. In most cities downtown was the hub of the streetcar system. In many cities downtown no longer is the business, commercial,or entertainment center of the city. People do not travel downtown as they did in the past. Buses do not require building expensive track to change routes.

Streetcars disappeared for financial reasons. They were not done in as the result of a plot.



fkrock@pacbell.net

By 1940, the GM 71-series diesel (mostly the 6-cylinder 671) and Spicer hydraulic transmission had solved the reliability problem for transit buses as well as allowed them to be large enough to replace city streetcars one for one.

During WWII this power train was perfected even more in various military vehicles.

Add to that the State would build and maintain the right-of way....



Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> By 1940, the GM 71-series diesel (mostly the
> 6-cylinder 671) and Spicer hydraulic
> transmission had solved the reliability
> problem for transit buses as well as allowed
> them to be large enough to replace city
> streetcars one for one.

Funny thing, the first bus I rode when Cleveland got rid of the Mayfield Road Streetcar line in 1948 burned up its transmission going up Cedar Hill!

It took GM into the late 50's before they could build a transmission that could replace the Mt. Washington car line in Pittsburgh

> Add to that the State would build and
> maintain the right-of way.... and guess who provides the money !!!!!!!

One thing that cost cities extra money was that most streetcar franchises required the streetcar company to clean the snow off the streets they ran on. No more streetcars, no more street cleaning during the winter ... big bucks were spent on snowplows in the 50s.

No matter how wonderful or miraculous streetcars are, they cannot make money if nobody rides them (traction economics 101). Streetcars were full in Cleveland during the second world war when automobiles and gasoline were rationed. My dad got a special dispensation to buy one of the few 1942 chevies made because he worked in a war plant with a five person car pool. Everybody saved their ration stamps so they could go on the required "Sunday Drive" by riding the streetcar during the week.



lamontdc@adelphia.net

Nice article ...explains it much better then I can

http://www.urban-renaissance.org/urbanren/index.cf
lamontdc@adelphia.net

About the only issues I have seen that prompt more zealous passions than this one are partisan politics (was Clinton the victim of a witch hunt or an evil man himself? See what I mean?).

Trolley partisans will insist forever that evil corporations engaged in a conspiracy to kill off their beloved, efficient trolleys, and they will cite the many studies and court judgements as their "proof". The fact remains, however, that many, many systems went completely to buses with no help whatsoever from the "conspiracy" forces. It may be unethical to give a terminal patient a loaded pistol to kill himself, but the end result is eventually the same no matter what happens.

The actions of GM, Goodyear, etc. certainly weren't honest or completely altruistic, but the end result is much the same as Microsoft dominating the personal computer market today. Microsoft did things over the years as well that can be construed as unethical, but it had the willful assistance of hundreds of millions of users bowing to standardization rather than optimal operation/performance--much like 4 foot 8 1/2 inch gauge is a stupid, asinine gauge, but it beats having 25 gauges to have to reckon with between railroads and preservationists.

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

The ability of GM to offer credit when selling a bus compared to the St. Louis Car Company, which could not match that, is an often overlooked aspect of this debate. The last president of the St. Louis Car Co offered that observation when at the Museum of Transportation for the shooting of a video a while back. GMAC was a big factor in their inability to compete towards the end of the life of the firm.

rdgoldfede@aol.com