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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 250
Location: Sandpoint, ID
https://railmarket.com/news/business/3033-alexander-kamyshin-chairman-of-ukrainian-railways-has-resigned


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 250
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Looks like there is some steam

https://twitter.com/AKamyshin/status/1616889896324546567/photo/1


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3875
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
mjanssen wrote:


I got curious and did a little looking.

According to Steam Locomotive Info, there were 433 steam locomotives in Ukraine; many have since been listed as "lost" or scrapped, some apparently were in a strategic reserve.

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/countr ... ch=ukraine

The photo in the Twitter post appears to be an older photo of Er 799-18, a light looking 0-10-0 (0-5-0 in the Ukranian classification, which like the French, counts axles instead of wheels). This engine was in a Christmas train consist in years past.

https://www.railpictures.net/showphotos ... r=Er799-18

A video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJ3Le6p5Ao

It also looks like the railway administration in Ukraine replaced the red star with the Ukrainian coat of arms symbol, a trident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ukraine


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1298
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Ukraine should probably look to the European Union for future railway operations.

In the interim, extend some 1524 mm gauge lines to Baltic ports meeting larger Russian clearances, in order to use existing equipment for export grain.

Next acquire enough 1435 mm gauge equipment meeting tighter European clearances to properly interchange with EU, dual gauging or regauging Ukranian lines as needed.

Finally regauge Ukranian track to 1435 mm. The Russians are assisting with the demolition.

Like anything else it will take time and money.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1991
Standard gauging is definitely the plan, although it will take a lot longer than say the Erie's switch. (paywall) https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastr ... 27.article

There was a major locomotive builder in Luhansk in the east, the Luhanskteplovoz/ Luhansk Locomotive Works was looted in 2015 when the Russians first occupied the area and is now almost completely empty. Before the war the plant was negotiating with Siemens in cooperating to build standard-gauge locomotives there, whether that will restart will depend on whether reparations against Russia are sufficient.


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Bowie, MD
EJ Berry wrote:
Ukraine should probably look to the European Union for future railway operations.

Phil Mulligan


After this thread popped up, I followed the gentleman mentioned by the OP on twitter. The very first tweet of his that I saw was he was leaving his job and taking a new one heading a rail integration with Europe program.

Given that this war isn't likely to end anytime soon unless something major happens in Moscow, and the pain point of the gauge change, I suspect the change will happen pretty quickly. I'm sure they know exactly where to start first based where their high priority tonnage needs to go.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3875
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
mjanssen wrote:


While Kamyshin has resigned, I'm going to bet that the railroad is still in good hands. He would have needed those other hands to do what he did.

Some other stories from a while back, some of which feature Kamyshin:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/ukraine-relyi ... 57606.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/maga ... rains.html

This quote from the New York Times magazine article is kind of interesting:

Quote:
On the night of Feb. 23, when Kyiv was still rife with rumors and denials about the Russian troops and weaponry amassing along the border, Oleksandr Kamyshin, the 38-year-old chief executive of Ukrzaliznytsia — Ukraine’s national rail system — sent a photograph to the management’s Telegram group chat in an attempt to settle everyone’s nerves. The photo showed him tucking his two sons, 8 and 12, into bed in their apartment in central Kyiv. The head of passenger services, Oleksandr Pertsovskyi, replied with a photo of his toddler taking a bath. The implication of both photos was clear: The leaders, and their families, were staying put.

Kamyshin had been in charge of Ukrzaliznytsia for only six months. Still in his trial period, he hadn’t even been offered a permanent contract. When he was hired, he espoused all the Western-approved jargon of railway reform that had been demanded of Ukraine for years — “higher freight yields,” “vertical integration,” “rolling-stock renewal,” “cargo turnover” and so on. Kamyshin had spent eight years on the management board of System Capital Management, an investment house belonging to Ukraine’s richest oligarch, Rinat Ahmetov, which oversaw the iron-ore and coal magnate’s freight trains. He ran international marathons, including the New York City Marathon, collected fine red wines and was a devoted fan of the internet-famous restaurateur Salt Bae, whom he once met in Istanbul.

When the bombing started at 4 a.m., Kamyshin decided there was no time for the Western management techniques he had championed. He sent his wife and children and a majority of the Ukrzaliznytsia leadership team west. A command cell of six stayed in the center of Ukraine, all of them career railway men (yes, only men) who could close their eyes and recite the railway map down to the names and sizes of stations, how many tracks ran into each. The team decided it was important to project strength and fearlessness — to show that Ukrainians would not be terrorized. Over the course of the next 100 days, these six men and Kamyshin would dictate where the trains would run, along which routes, what they would transport and where.

“We don’t have discussions, we don’t have a lot of opinions, we don’t have long conversations — all decisions are made instantly and they are binding,” Kamyshin told me in May. “I understood that if I sat down and took the time to make balanced decisions, it would be worse than a wrong decision.”


Interesting how "Western management techniques" had to be abandoned.

I can't help but think of what we've seen here, where everything is about cut, cut, cut.

I can't help but think this is something he might have planned. If it was, and if it had gone as far as we have in cut, cut, cut, the Ukrainian system wouldn't have been able to do what it has.

Compare this to the Union Pacific, which had to turn traffic away because the management had cut too much and couldn't get people back. That's ironic, considering that the road had as its advertising slogan, "We Can Handle It."

Not anymore!!

What does this say about our corporate mindset, about what capitalism has devolved to?


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:55 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 983
Alexander Kamyshin's latest tweet:
Quote:
Yet another uneasy night. Heavy shelling across the whole country. We #KeepRunning. Do not cancel any single train. Although start delaying. 25 trains already late, including 10 trains delaying over 1h. We will withstand. But #haterussians.

1:38 AM · Mar 9, 2023 from Ukraine·


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1991
A story of a car repair facility in Kyiv, bombed but now reopened at full capacity: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/14839


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:36 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Posts: 104
J3a-614 wrote:
mjanssen wrote:


While Kamyshin has resigned, I'm going to bet that the railroad is still in good hands. He would have needed those other hands to do what he did.

Some other stories from a while back, some of which feature Kamyshin:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/ukraine-relyi ... 57606.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/maga ... rains.html

This quote from the New York Times magazine article is kind of interesting:

Quote:
On the night of Feb. 23, when Kyiv was still rife with rumors and denials about the Russian troops and weaponry amassing along the border, Oleksandr Kamyshin, the 38-year-old chief executive of Ukrzaliznytsia — Ukraine’s national rail system — sent a photograph to the management’s Telegram group chat in an attempt to settle everyone’s nerves. The photo showed him tucking his two sons, 8 and 12, into bed in their apartment in central Kyiv. The head of passenger services, Oleksandr Pertsovskyi, replied with a photo of his toddler taking a bath. The implication of both photos was clear: The leaders, and their families, were staying put.

Kamyshin had been in charge of Ukrzaliznytsia for only six months. Still in his trial period, he hadn’t even been offered a permanent contract. When he was hired, he espoused all the Western-approved jargon of railway reform that had been demanded of Ukraine for years — “higher freight yields,” “vertical integration,” “rolling-stock renewal,” “cargo turnover” and so on. Kamyshin had spent eight years on the management board of System Capital Management, an investment house belonging to Ukraine’s richest oligarch, Rinat Ahmetov, which oversaw the iron-ore and coal magnate’s freight trains. He ran international marathons, including the New York City Marathon, collected fine red wines and was a devoted fan of the internet-famous restaurateur Salt Bae, whom he once met in Istanbul.

When the bombing started at 4 a.m., Kamyshin decided there was no time for the Western management techniques he had championed. He sent his wife and children and a majority of the Ukrzaliznytsia leadership team west. A command cell of six stayed in the center of Ukraine, all of them career railway men (yes, only men) who could close their eyes and recite the railway map down to the names and sizes of stations, how many tracks ran into each. The team decided it was important to project strength and fearlessness — to show that Ukrainians would not be terrorized. Over the course of the next 100 days, these six men and Kamyshin would dictate where the trains would run, along which routes, what they would transport and where.

“We don’t have discussions, we don’t have a lot of opinions, we don’t have long conversations — all decisions are made instantly and they are binding,” Kamyshin told me in May. “I understood that if I sat down and took the time to make balanced decisions, it would be worse than a wrong decision.”


Interesting how "Western management techniques" had to be abandoned.

I can't help but think of what we've seen here, where everything is about cut, cut, cut.

I can't help but think this is something he might have planned. If it was, and if it had gone as far as we have in cut, cut, cut, the Ukrainian system wouldn't have been able to do what it has.

Compare this to the Union Pacific, which had to turn traffic away because the management had cut too much and couldn't get people back. That's ironic, considering that the road had as its advertising slogan, "We Can Handle It."

Not anymore!!

What does this say about our corporate mindset, about what capitalism has devolved to?


When at War - Survival beats profit as a sustaining motive in operations.

Western operations, in a world without War, have profit as their sole operating motivation.


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:49 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3875
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
mmi16 wrote:
When at War - Survival beats profit as a sustaining motive in operations.

Western operations, in a world without War, have profit as their sole operating motivation.


And again, we must ask the question--

What has our economic system devolved to? Where is this devolved system taking us?

Is it somewhere we want to go--or even somewhere we want desperately to avoid?

Lest someone question whether this has anything to do with preservation, let us ask one more question--

Could the Strasburg, to pick one example, continue to survive if its main line connection at Paradise went away?

Where would we ever see a mainline engine like 765 or 261 run again if our system continues on the course it's on?

And this is just the preservation perspective. Can we survive, economically, with a non-functioning rail system?


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:24 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Posts: 104
J3a-614 wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
When at War - Survival beats profit as a sustaining motive in operations.

Western operations, in a world without War, have profit as their sole operating motivation.


And again, we must ask the question--

What has our economic system devolved to? Where is this devolved system taking us?

Is it somewhere we want to go--or even somewhere we want desperately to avoid?

Lest someone question whether this has anything to do with preservation, let us ask one more question--

Could the Strasburg, to pick one example, continue to survive if its main line connection at Paradise went away?

Where would we ever see a mainline engine like 765 or 261 run again if our system continues on the course it's on?

And this is just the preservation perspective. Can we survive, economically, with a non-functioning rail system?

Wall Street 'think' is running the USA (and most of the Western World) today. It remains to be seen how Wall Street would react to War in its own yard.


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 214
Quote:
Where would we ever see a mainline engine like 765 or 261 run again if our system continues on the course it's on?

What is needed in this country is a museum with enough track to let the big locomotives stretch their legs. It could be done, but a crazy rail fan like me would have to win a billion dollar lottery to finance it. I know that there are many places in the Midwest where several abandoned right of ways form a triangle or a square. Such a project would require buying thousands of acres of land, and then reselling what was not needed with covenants on it, to prevent lawsuits from nimby’s. And to those that say such a thing is impossible, “ there are only two kinds of people in the world, those that say it can’t be done and those that find a way to do it”.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:52 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1980
Quote:
"What is needed in this country is a museum with enough track to let the big locomotives stretch their legs. It could be done, but a crazy rail fan like me would have to win a billion dollar lottery to finance it. I know that there are many places in the Midwest where several abandoned right of ways form a triangle or a square. Such a project would require buying thousands of acres of land, and then reselling what was not needed with covenants on it, to prevent lawsuits from nimby’s. And to those that say such a thing is impossible, “ there are only two kinds of people in the world, those that say it can’t be done and those that find a way to do it”.
I am tempted to say that a more 'correct' answer is to integrate some or all the "preservation" operation with one of the PUD-real-estate plays like the one Fortress is using to justify the enormous investment in Brightline and the prospective Las Vegas HrSR line. If true higher-density high-speed traffic is not required, there may be suitable track capacity (and build quality, and maintenance) to allow large steam to run at typical excursion speed.

I would also note that the experience with the rebuilt Victorian R-class 4-6-4s in "weekend service" could easily be dusted off and promoted. Of course a proper professional support organization and probably purpose-built service vehicles and facilities would need to be put together, but a number of organizations including the T1 Trust have carefully gone through what would be needed.

Much of the overhead of the actual 'museum' preservation budget associated with excursions might fit comfortably into a comparatively small corner of the overall development budget, even if it has relatively high nominal beta...

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons on How to Run a Railroad
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:54 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3875
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Overmod wrote:
Quote:
"What is needed in this country is a museum with enough track to let the big locomotives stretch their legs. It could be done, but a crazy rail fan like me would have to win a billion dollar lottery to finance it. I know that there are many places in the Midwest where several abandoned right of ways form a triangle or a square. Such a project would require buying thousands of acres of land, and then reselling what was not needed with covenants on it, to prevent lawsuits from nimby’s. And to those that say such a thing is impossible, “ there are only two kinds of people in the world, those that say it can’t be done and those that find a way to do it”.
I am tempted to say that a more 'correct' answer is to integrate some or all the "preservation" operation with one of the PUD-real-estate plays like the one Fortress is using to justify the enormous investment in Brightline and the prospective Las Vegas HrSR line. If true higher-density high-speed traffic is not required, there may be suitable track capacity (and build quality, and maintenance) to allow large steam to run at typical excursion speed.

I would also note that the experience with the rebuilt Victorian R-class 4-6-4s in "weekend service" could easily be dusted off and promoted. Of course a proper professional support organization and probably purpose-built service vehicles and facilities would need to be put together, but a number of organizations including the T1 Trust have carefully gone through what would be needed.

Much of the overhead of the actual 'museum' preservation budget associated with excursions might fit comfortably into a comparatively small corner of the overall development budget, even if it has relatively high nominal beta...


Just bringing this up for reference.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41074


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