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 Post subject: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:55 pm 
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So apparently there's a small controversy at the National Railroad Museum which is holding its festival of trees. The Satanic temple brought a tree to be displayed at the museum. The usual snowflakes are throwing a fit but most people seem to just ignore it or find it funny. I have personally wondered what would happen if one of the houses along the right of way of a Christmas train route decided to put up some alternative decorations in view of the passengers.


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:59 pm 

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Don't give us (me and my 4 black cats) any ideas.... Ooh! ooh! I got it. What's the real meaning of Ho Ho Ho ???

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Last edited by QJdriver on Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
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A November 22, 2023 article from the Green Bay Press-Gazette:
National Railroad Museum supports Satanic Temple's entry in Festival of Trees display

And a November 28, 2023 article from the same newspaper:
U.S. Rep. Mike Gallagher aims his ire at The Satanic Temple tree at National Railroad Museum


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
Miscellaneous factoid: I have no clue why I know this, but December 25 is also Sol Invictus, a satanic religious holiday that dates to before Christmas.

So technically, it’s not a Christmas tree. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a Sol Invictus tree or even if one would “decorate” for that holiday. So, I’m thinking it may not have been a real good choice and could disrespectful to Christmas to allow that (though I do find it maybe a little amusing at all the fire it’ll draw).

Food for thought: I haven’t looked up their festival. However…. If their Festival of Trees is an inclusive “holiday” display, that’s one thing. If it’s strictly a Christmas display, that’s a more specific ballgame. There is a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Let's be straightforward about this.

No railroad museum, not even the Steamtown of old whose founder later embraced evangelical Christianity and felt no qualms about proselytizing to museum visitors with tracts out of his overalls pockets, has ANY business participating in religious activities such as evangelism. IT'S NOT IN YOUR MISSION STATEMENTS.

However, we are blithering idiots if we either refuse to recognize the significance--cultural, religious, or commercial--of the holiday seasons to American society, OR don't attempt to "cash in" on it with all manner of celebrations, be it Easter Egg hunts, Pumpkin Patch Trains, Polar Express, or whatever.
I have heard from lines/museums that freely admit that half of their annual revenues and/or ridership come from "Christmas trains" or the like. This is "make or break" for them. Black Friday, if you will.

In my opinion, NRM Green Bay played it exactly right--refused to discriminate, and gave religious folks, non-religious folks, and even the "Satanists" equal footing. The folks who get their knickers in a twist over this tree entry are placing religion over both the museum's raison d'etre and the true "spirit of the season" (Jesus' alleged birthday notwithstanding).
You simply welcome all comers. If someone wants to hold a bar mitzvah or a gay wedding on your property or train, their money (and you ARE charging, aren't you?) is just as welcome as some church picnic or antique car club rally or pet-shelter fundraiser. Personally, I might draw the line at a fundraiser for a group that does not abide by the same anti-discriminating policy themselves--a KKK rally or a fundraiser for a terrorist organization, for example. There also might be some fair qualms about a "pigeon shoot" or a swingers' club......

Activist protesters and boycotters always see to it that they trumpet their sanctimony to elevate their noise far above their actual impact. For every party that proclaims their boycotting of Chik-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or whoever (and gives the mainstream news media a story), there is typically at least one party that goes out of their way to patronize the firm or place in support of them and in blatant defiance of the activists. (I have never seen a Chik-Fil-A with a short line except on Sundays when they are closed!) The only boycott in recent memory that actually had a quantifiable impact was the legions of former Bud Light drinkers that repudiated the company for its recent hiring of a transsexual "influencer," and that was not an organized/announced boycott but simply millions of personal choices by consumers.

At some point in the future, someone is going to practice "the American way" and pull the Ohio bakery gay-wedding-cake "trap" and come to entrap you with something they can sue you over, much like the "mobility consultant" that sued museums and excursions that didn't take advantage of his "consulting business" to rectify perceived "violations" of ADA policies. Don't give them any ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:03 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
Two thumbs up Mr. Mitchell.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:34 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
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Linus van Pelt wrote:
"I never thought it was such a bad little tree. It's not bad at all, really. Maybe it just needs a little love."


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Sol Invictus celebrated a Roman pagan sun god figure, nothing to do with the current Abrahamic architype of Satan. The tree is more of an adaptation of Northern European pagan traditions related to winter solstice Holly King / Oak King cycle and evergreen trees remaining green in winter, right up there with mistletoe. and adapted into the modern Christian and economic holiday of Christmas. I don't know where burning the heads of children of followers of Abrahamic mythology came from, probably a nightmare somebody had while burning witches resulting from the ingestion of argot infected Rye flour causing hallucinatory visions. So, why not include any derivative adaptation of a pagan tradition without worrying about the particular mythological characters from later belief systems involved? We can all benefit from a broader community outreach.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:38 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada.
The history of the Christmas Holiday and Christmas trees is irrelevant.

The main point is, they are celebrating evil. The museum could have said NO! Perhaps they would have been taken to court. However, by acquiescing to evil, they have sown the wind.

Friedrich Nietzsche's statement that "God is dead" is oft quoted. However, atheists and God-haters do not utter the entire statement by the great philosopher:

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?”

In the 1930s, Germans watched out their windows as evil ran amok. Did they watch as their Jewish neighbours were dragged away? Did they watch as their Jehovah Witness neighbours were dragged away? Did they watch as their Downs Syndrome neighbours were dragged away? Did they watch as their Gypsy neighbours were dragged away? No, they pulled down the drapes and shut the curtains so they could not see the evil. By May of 1945, millions of people and been enslaved and slaughtered. German cities had been reduced to rubble in a style reminiscent of Biblical retribution. Germans turned their backs on God and on the God-given Moral Law and made new gods of pagan ideologies and their leaders. They sowed the wind, and they reaped the whirlwind.
We obviously have not learned from the events of the 20th century as we again kowtow to evil. Once again, in western society, we have educated people on the streets shouting "from the river to the sea" and "gas the Jews." I have heard this called the prerequisite to Holocaust.
I know I am paddling against the stream on here, but so be it. People have not turned away from religion today. They have simply replaced the founding force of our morality and freedom with the religions of atheism, satanism, neo-Marxism, post-modernism, socialism, and many other vile and contemptuous ideologies.
I visited that museum about 30 years ago and it was a wonderful place. If I could get there now, I would protest what they are doing out front. All I can do is post a few words on here. They have sown the wind. How bad will be their whirlwind?


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
On a much happier note and in keeping with the OP thread title, I am pleased that my wife Karen and I have been chosen to be Santa & Mrs. Clauss on this Saturday's USMC and NS sponsored Toys 4 Tots special train being organized by Vivian and Bennett Levin.

The diesel powered special will run Saturday morning from Albany NY to Binghamton NY stopping at numerous small towns along the way to distribute winter clothes and toys to families in need. For many of these families it will be their only Christmas.

I'll give a full report after the event.

Merry Christmas to all. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:28 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:48 am
Posts: 65
The celebration of Christmas is to some a secular event, and to others (including me) a time of spiritual reflection with gratitude. I count a number of non-believers among my close friends and respect their choice of unbelief.

This example, elevating The Prince of Evil in coincidence with the celebration of The Prince of Peace, ridicules the distinction between good versus evil and - IMO - casts the appropriate reflection upon its sponsors.

I note the reference to F. Nelson Blount and his well-worn pocket Bible. At the time, I was a high school student and he was the first Evangelist I had ever met (aboard CNJ 97 on a High Iron Trip returning in the evening to Jersey City). I was not offended, but rather accepted the fact he wanted to guide me to a "better place".

I'm pleased to see the above post from Ross Rowland, reflecting the true Christmas Spirit.

Otherwise, the simple fact is, NRM neither needs nor wants my approval, and I'll leave it there.


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada.
Bad Order wrote:
Great Western wrote:
Once again, in western society, we have educated people on the streets shouting "from the river to the sea" and "gas the Jews." I have heard this called the prerequisite to Holocaust.


Ah, I see what you're doing there... with your veiled swipe at Liberals with the "educated" people comment. We'd never see MAGA people protest about anything, would we?

Is pro-Palestinian bad?

Palestinian people aren't bad in and of themselves, are they? Hamas is what the problem is, isn't it?

(I will admit here that I cannot fathom exactly what the middle easterners have been fighting over and about since time immemorial. I don't get religion... it's stupid)

Not all republicans are bad, either, it's just the Proud Boys, KKK, Oath Keepers and the other MAGA (American Hamas) variants that give Republicans a bad name.

Here, we have you damning the "educated people" supporting the Palestinian citizenry while they're getting slaughtered...I liken it to shooting fish in a barrel.

It wasn't that long ago that the American Hamas group were counter-protesting in Charlottesville Virginia, marching along with their tiki torches, chanting "Jews will not replace us" right before one of their members drove through the crowd of peaceful protesters and killed one of them.

Were you appalled when the then "president" admitted that he agreed with them, saying as much with his much reported response of "there were fine people... ON BOTH SIDES" when asked to condemn the people who caused the death of that lady?

There, you had a pro-MAGA group of white men... shouting "Jews will not replace us"... and every political candidate in America resoundingly condemns them, but one.... and that wasn't the end of his political career? How do you justify that, while casting aspersions on "educated people" for supporting Palestinians?

The killer belonged to the group that supported people like him, so when he gets up in front of a microphone condemning Hamas (to attack Biden) and supporting Israel... I find it outrageous that every news organization in the world doesn't replay his statement every time he speaks.


What you are doing is called straw-manning.
Large groups of students at Ivy League Universities protested against Israel to the point that major donors threatened to pull out of those schools. Those students are purportedly "educated." Several members of the U.S. government have been censured for their evident support of anti-Semitism. I assume they are educated people -- perhaps not?

Back to the main theme:

If their only light is darkness, how dark is their dark?


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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:47 pm
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I think it's worth nothing that the Satanic Temple does not actually believe in Satan, but is instead a parody organization criticizing the influence of organized religion. It's similar to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

According to the organization's website:

Quote:
The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
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Location: South Carolina
Tyler Trahan wrote:
I think it's worth nothing that the Satanic Temple does not actually believe in Satan, but is instead a parody organization criticizing the influence of organized religion. It's similar to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

According to the organization's website:

Quote:
The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.


I’m sure you can take any so-named organization at their word.

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 Post subject: Re: Satan Claws is coming to town
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
whodom wrote:
Tyler Trahan wrote:
I think it's worth nothing that the Satanic Temple does not actually believe in Satan, but is instead a parody organization criticizing the influence of organized religion. It's similar to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

According to the organization's website:

Quote:
The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.


I’m sure you can take any so-named organization at their word.


Pot, kettle, black.

Any such organization, including any museum or tourist operation, will depict their "mission" in flattering, positive terms. Meanwhile, atheists and agnostics can (and repeatedly do) point to millions upon millions dead, abused, etc. in the alleged name of religions, from the Crusades to deadly fights between sects of a specific religion (English Civil War, Iran/Iraq, the Irish "Troubles," etc.) to systemic abuse covered up by overseers (the Magdalene "laundries," sexual abuse by priests, etc.).

One could make a fair case that such a "satanic" group is maliciously trying to stir the pot and cause offense in a case like this, simply because they can. The problem, to my mind, is that so many effectively "bait" them by striving so hard to BE offended at every opportunity. And the same accusations of "baiting/pot-stirring can just as easily be lobbed at evangelicals and the rabble-rousers who pass by seventeen other bakeries to order a gay wedding cake from someone they KNOW will refuse them on religious grounds.

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather the NRM get all that cr@p out of the way so I can get the photos of the equipment they're blocking--exactly as I muttered at all the Halloween/pumpkin stuff that blocked most of my exhibit hall photography back in October! But I'm just a damned railfan who paid twice to visit with my wife on a dead weekday, what does my opinion matter?


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