Could anyone post some info on the Quakertown & Eastern (the tourist version) of the 60's. I know that the former RDG coaches & 2-8-0 604 (BC&G 4) at Spencer NC were part of that operation as well as one of the other 2-8-0's (I think 14). Any pictures floating around out there? Hard to find anything on the net about it.
Thanks,
Jeff

mcc385@yahoo.com

> Could anyone post some info on the
> Quakertown & Eastern (the tourist
> version) of the 60's. I know that the former
> RDG coaches & 2-8-0 604 (BC&G 4) at
> Spencer NC were part of that operation as
> well as one of the other 2-8-0's (I think
> 14). Any pictures floating around out there?
> Hard to find anything on the net about it.
> Thanks,
> Jeff

Q&E was the brainchild of Francis Ede, a car dealer and railfan from Quakertown, Pa. (hence the name "Q&E"). Ede bought BC&G 4 in 1967 and moved it to RDG's Bethlehem Engine Terminal. He ran a sort of low-budget, alternate-High Iron Co., starting with a trip in May 1968 on the RDG, and running in 1969 and 1970 on LHR, LVRR and even PC! He had a number of RDG round-roof commuter cars for the train; Ede put the whole thing up for sale in 1970 or 71. A number of his crew went on to start Atlantic Central Steam (in that same Bethlehem-Allentown area-- they leased CPR Royal Hudson 2839 from Mike Eagleson, Ron Ziel, Vic Hand, et al, and brought it to the Northampton & Bath RR in the same general area).

I think the RDG coaches at Spencer are from the "Permacel Express", a Johnson & Johnson promotional train (three RDG cars) from the 1967 era, that later became the "Preamble Express" about 1974-- and advance train for the American Freedom Train of 1975-76. Don't know where the Q&E coaches went.


hpincus@mindspring.com

> I think the RDG coaches at Spencer are from
> the "Permacel Express", a Johnson
> & Johnson promotional train (three RDG
> cars) from the 1967 era, that later became
> the "Preamble Express" about
> 1974-- and advance train for the American
> Freedom Train of 1975-76. Don't know where
> the Q&E coaches went.

I'm not sure, but I've always been under the impression that the coaches at Spencer were Ede's. The 4 went to the Southwest Virginia operation in the 1970s before ending up in Spencer, and I assume that the cars followed suit.

I can't say that for certain, however.

JAC

A long ago issue of William S. Young's STEAM RAILROADING magazine had an extensive photo article about the Q&E operations (IIRC right after the last of the trips ran. No, I don't what issue it was off the top of my head, but I'll check tonight). These excellent series of magazines turn up a lot at model train and railroadiana shows. The article lists all of the trips that Howard mentioned.

One of Ede's partners in the Q&E operation was a fellow by the name of Paul Hersch. Mr. Hersch acquired 2-8-0 14 from the BC&G roughly about the same time Ede acquired the 4, but IIRC this engine didn't make it to Quakertown until after the Q&E operations had ended. 14 did go to Quakertown eventually and stayed there until after Mr. Hersch passed away. His widow gave the engine to the Wilmington & Western RR in 1980. While enroute to DE, 14 derailed and received some damage, including to the front of the tender. 14 remained in storage on the W&W until going to Gaithersburg, MD where it's on display today.

In 1972 Ede sold 2-8-0 4, the RDG baggage car (IIRC the car used on the Reading Rambles excursions of the early 60's) and many of the RDG coaches to Carter-Cash Enterprises (Yes, the late great Johnny Cash and family) for a possible tourist attraction in southwest VA near the home of the Carter family of country music fame. That didn't happen, but Gail Belamy (sp??) brought the equipment to Hiltons, VA on the Southern Ry's Bristol Line c.1974. Begining in the fall of 1974, the 4 and train ran east (south??) from Hiltons on about 10 miles of the Bristol Line as the Southwest Virginia Scenic RR. The SVSR operated again with 4 in 1975 and quietly folded after that. Hiltons was/is pretty much in the middle of nowhere (beautiful country, but well off the major highways) and ridership wasn't exactly at "Strasburg levels". The owner tried again a few years later with an abrevated ride using Jerry Jacobson's ex-Kelley Island Lime 0-4-0T 11 (now in SD) for power. Of course the 4 and, yes, the ex-Q&E nee-RDG passenger cars did go on to Spencer, NC. The SVSR also had a Baldwin diesel switcher which came from Tennessee Eastman (IIRC, nee-WM Ry), which I think also went to Spencer (right or wrong, Jim Wrinn??).

Now about the Johnson & Johnson "Permacel Express" Howard was mentioning. Those ex-RDG cars used on that train did go on to be used on the "Preamble Express" trip, which checked the route of the American Freedom Train. IIRC, those same cars brought up the hind end of the AFT itself. Now my question about the J&J's Permacel Express. I seemed to recall at the time seeing a photo of it being pulled by none other than the Black River & Western's 2-8-0 60.

Hey, Howard, am I crazy or is that correct?? 60 rarely has left the BR&W (a late 60's fan trip on the LIRR and a c.1994 visit to Whippany come to mind), so this would be noteworthy!! Where did this J&J train run and why??

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Of course, before Mr. Ede there was a common carrier called the Quakertown & Eastern which ran east from Quakertown (imagine that!).

The line, which was both a steam and electric operation at various times, struck a path northeast from Quakertown to a point near the Delaware River at Durham.

It's been gone 70 some years, but you can still find the grade. It even shows on some topo maps. It pretty much followed the valley of Cooks Creek.

It was a ne'er do well that Mr. Ede honored when he named his steam operation.

Rob

Most of the cars at NCTM are ex-R.Co. 1290's - the cars Ede had. NCTM's obs car (numbered by NCTM in the 1290's) is an ex-air-conditioned 1300 with bucket seats.

I think the Permacel/Preamble train found its way to BC's Royal Hudson train and is now on a dinner train in the US.


Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Best as we can tell, the Q&E trainset has been with the 4 now for about 35 years. It went to Hiltons, Va., where an ex WM BLW switcher from Tenn. Eastman was added as backup. There were 2 open sided ex-RDG cars (one of which has bitten the dust), 2 standard 1200-series RDG cars, the one car numbered in the 1200s but with one end modified to create an open platform and a real nice ex-CNJ 1000-series coach similar to those at Steamtown. The ex-Rambles baggage car also was part of this.

Amazing thing to me is that I got to climb across most of this in the summer of 1975 while it was stored at Hiltons, Va., out of service. Little did I know how much time I'd be spending on all of this stuff.

Now for the rest of the story...

The 4 is laid up for major boiler work. Her last day of service was Nov. 12, 2001--for the ARM/TRAIN convention. She got quite a bit of work back in the early 1990s, but now there is much more to do--mostly items that weren't renewed at that time and other things the Part 230 investigation uncovered. The smokebox was set to come off last weekend. There's also a crack in a boiler course that has to be repaired, plus plenty of sheets that need renewal. There's still some debate on the backhead... bring your check book and your torch!

The RDG baggage went north a few years back to the RDG Technical & Historical Society, so it's back home.

The WM BLW is back in Hagerstown as WM 132.

As for the rest of it, it sure would be great to get a few SR cars in good shape on the property so the RDG cars can head back north.



http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

Now that I think about it, didn't the converted passenger cars used by Pennsylania Power & Light for their traveling atomic energy exhibit train (c. about 1971-72) come off the Q&E roster?

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Nope - that was another Reading Shops production from retired coaches. For a while PP&L kept the train at Hosensack on the Perkiomen Branch.

Around 1970 they had the train out for a display and were bringing it back with one GP-35. They parked the train then realised everybody had to ride the GP-35 back to Allentown. Some of them had to ride outside the cab on the walkways.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

The baggage car NCTM had is 1715(II), a 1953 conversion from a combine (which is why it has two vestibules*.) It had been numbered in the 1760's.

1715(I) was a conventional baggage car and was the refreshment car for the 1959 Rambles. In 1960 it was replaced by diner 1186 which was fitted with counters instead of tables, similar to B&O's Race Train diner. RCTHS is acquiring 1186 which is currently in Philadelphia.

Around 1964 R.Co. renumbered one of the 1760's to 1715 and that is the car the Q&E acquired. George Hart had another 1760 which became an open air car on the Chessie Steam Specials.

* RDG and CNJ combines had two vestibules because they were not turned at the terminals.



Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> They parked the train then realised
> everybody had to ride the GP-35 back to
> Allentown. Some of them had to ride outside
> the cab on the walkways.

Heck, I'd pay a good $50-$75 to ride a Reading GP-35's walkways from Hosensack to Allentown today!


West Hanover Getting Rid of Caboose

> George Hart had another
> 1760 which became an open air car on the
> Chessie Steam Specials

Phil,

Is this the open car that George is/was running (currently) at Jim Thorpe (haven't been to Mauch Chunk since CPR 1098 last ran in '94!)? That open car clearly showed its ex-baggage car heritage. IIRC it had been one of the RDG combines-turned-baggage cars. I think someone (Kurt?) said Strasburg converted it into an open car for George.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Speaking of RDG coaches (my favorite), I have seen a picture in one of the old "road to Paradise" books with the 90 hauling a tain with a RDG coach in the fleet. Did the Strasburg own one at one time and have it pressed into service?


jeff@compucomis.net

Jeff,

I believe Strasburg rented several of George Hart's ex-RDG steel coaches during at least part of one season during the late 60's. Most likely it's one of these in that photo.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

That is correct--George Hart's Rail Tours coaches 1341 and 1158 (both of which are now at Stewartstown RR) were leased during the Summer 1968 season when SRC was short on coaches account of several of the B&M cars were off-line in Garrison, NY during the filming of "Hello, Dolly." They were also used with two other of Hart's coaches in December 1968 when #1223 ran a four-car "Santa Claus Special" to Watt & Shand Department Store in Lancaster; the Penn Central refused to loan ex-PRR P70's to SRC so they simply leased Hart's. I have slides to prove it!

K.R. Bell

> Jeff,

> I believe Strasburg rented several of George
> Hart's ex-RDG steel coaches during at least
> part of one season during the late 60's.
> Most likely it's one of these in that photo.

> Regards,
> Jim Robinson