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 Post subject: Re: Park Locomotives
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:30 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Massachusetts
Mount Royal wrote:
Now, I’m starting wonder about other park ornaments, such as military aircraft, artillery pieces, tanks, boats, and other vehicles. I wonder if other preservation communities are having similar discussions and launching efforts to save some of these park artifacts. I know there was an effort to restore the B-17 “Memphis Belle” several years ago. This historic aircraft sat neglected out on display for years. Interesting. Gonna have to do some research.


Fortunately, at least in the case of retired USAF Aircraft, a local community can't just decide to hire a scrapper and rid themselves of the artifact. Most of them are "permanent" loans from the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton, OH. It is my understanding that part of the loan agreement is that the holders of the artifacts are supposed to take some reasonable care of them. They cannot simply be disposed of, and if the AF decides that an aircraft if not being properly cared for, they can be recalled. Such was the case with the "Belle" and she's now in fine hands out in Dayton. I saw her in the restoration shop in 2016 and she was beginning to come together. It is my understanding that she will be rolled out as an exhibit sometime this year. I fully expect that when she does, she obviously won't be airworthy, but she will LOOK like you could climb in and start the engines.

I am not as familiar with the policies of the National Museum of Naval Aviation, but I suspect that Navy airplanes are handled in much the same way.

/Kevin Madore


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 Post subject: Re: Park Locomotives
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:54 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 657
Location: Ipswich, UK
O/T, but the Memphis Belle has just been completed and moved into the Dayton Museum in the last few days....
https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/lo ... qB7fuz9QJ/

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 Post subject: Re: Park Locomotives
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:21 am 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 43
In regard to "over regulated" states, I'd point you to an under-regulated (and damned proud of it)state, Texas. How many chemical plant fires will it take to add some regulations related to safety there? And...how many workers will die in these fires and explosions before something is done?

People always fuss over regulations - until they really see the obverse. Lead free paint isn't a problem - until it gets in the air. Sanding, cutting, grinding, and all sorts of normal paint prep work does just that. It's great if you don't want cosmetic or running restoration, or 2 inches of paint buildup, or if you plan on repainting it every year (to add to that buildup). OTW, it is a problem.

We get calls all the time from lawyers wanting documentation and drawings (usually for free) of rubber flooring, asbestos floor covering, etc. After I had my spine surgery, I had to sit and watch programs that were sponsored by the legal profession low lifes. The issue is NOT with regulation of environmental issues, it's with the torte system and the manner in which lawyers can and do work. Most of the cases you are concerned about in terms of over-regulation - are based on the fact that lawyers were involved in the regulations and they were the beneficiaries of the extra work involved in having those cases in trial.

Personally, I feel a lot of the California "Cancer Causing Agent" regulations are over the top. (Then I remember walking around LA when leaded gas was the only gas available). I can't say which ones, but when you have to specify that an inert and natural occurring in many forms substance (not lead or asbestos) is a potential cancer causing agent - you soon realize that EVERYTHING has to be labeled lest the lawyers come knocking.
There is a pendulum swing for regulation/deregulation. At times it swings far too far to one side or another - no one wants to see it in the middle ground - except those directly affected. The ony ones who truly benefit over the swings are lawyers. And Lobbyists for the various groups. And politicians who are paid by lobbyists.


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 Post subject: Re: Park Locomotives
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:34 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6443
KevinM wrote:
Mount Royal wrote:
Now, I’m starting wonder about other park ornaments, such as military aircraft, artillery pieces, tanks, boats, and other vehicles. I wonder if other preservation communities are having similar discussions and launching efforts to save some of these park artifacts. I know there was an effort to restore the B-17 “Memphis Belle” several years ago. This historic aircraft sat neglected out on display for years. Interesting. Gonna have to do some research.


Fortunately, at least in the case of retired USAF Aircraft, a local community can't just decide to hire a scrapper and rid themselves of the artifact. Most of them are "permanent" loans from the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton, OH. It is my understanding that part of the loan agreement is that the holders of the artifacts are supposed to take some reasonable care of them. They cannot simply be disposed of, and if the AF decides that an aircraft if not being properly cared for, they can be recalled. Such was the case with the "Belle" and she's now in fine hands out in Dayton. I saw her in the restoration shop in 2016 and she was beginning to come together. It is my understanding that she will be rolled out as an exhibit sometime this year. I fully expect that when she does, she obviously won't be airworthy, but she will LOOK like you could climb in and start the engines.

I am not as familiar with the policies of the National Museum of Naval Aviation, but I suspect that Navy airplanes are handled in much the same way.

/Kevin Madore


AFTER the "Belle" was taken off outside display, a group in Memphis had pulled her into an old hanger where she was worked on. The wife and I vacationed in Memphis at that time and I made a point of seeking her out and checking the progress of the restoration. At that time, the engines had been taken off and were being worked on and I was surprised that they had all been built by Studebaker, apparently under contract with Pratt & Whitney. Although progress on her restoration was being made, perhaps the Air Force thought that it wasn't satisfactory and then reclaimed the B-17 and took her to Dayton.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Park Locomotives
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:59 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1485
Location: Philadelphia, PA
According to the USAF Museum, the Memphis Belle exhibit will open May 17, 2018 and the event will feature visits by two operational B-17G aircraft.

The date is the 75th anniversary of the crew completing their 25th combat mission and becoming eligible to return to the USA. The Belle was the first USAAF heavy bomber to return to the USA after completing 25 combat missions over Europe.

The USAF Museum is in the same business we are and does an excellent job.

Phil Mulligan


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