Effort To Save WM S2 144, Currently in Canada

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

tdmidget wrote:

Fat chance. How many employees today know what plain bearings are?

I own a set of roller bearing trucks and will be lending them free of charge to the group should we decide that the more should occur on its own wheels vs by flatcar or OTR.

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

PMC wrote:

tdmidget wrote:

Fat chance. How many employees today know what plain bearings are?

EDM wrote:

The employes know that plain bearings are 'different', and that is reason enough to say no to movement.

That is what I thought too, not even considering if it has self-centering couplers. Perhaps the "preparing" that they mention will rectify those things, but the cost might be less if they either load it on a flat car or just use a semi-truck the entire way.

Right we are considering all options and are working with a rail services provider in Canada to help move this along.

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

jayrod wrote:

Yep. The Class 1s won’t touch it with bronze bearings. Alignment control will also be an issue, too. S2s were limited to 60 mph and I’d be leery going anywhere close to that fast and bird caging the motors. I don’t think I’d consider a flat car - you’d need to watch it like a hawk the whole way. Truck it with someone that knows what they’re doing whether on or off it’s trucks. It’ll arrive in one piece with less damage.

Bearings would be brass in this case, additionally we have no intent to move it on plain bearings, though a great many class 1 locomotives still sport brass bearings for traction motor suspension bearings. That's a conversation as old as the 1990s interchange prohibition on plain bearings.

As stated on our page and in other responses in this thread, I will be lending the free use of my roller bearing idlers trucks for this move should the organization decide to move the 144 on its own wheels versus flatcar or OTR.

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

QJdriver wrote:

There's at least two problems with shipping on a flatcar: 1) The crackheads will strip it for copper if it gets parked in the shadows. 2) The potential for damage is endless if Larry, Moe, and Curly Joe get to handle it.

If you don't have a thoroughly vetted trucker, shoot me a PM and I can suggest a couple.

And, ACCOMPANY YOUR SHIPMENT PERSONALLY. When I've moved steam locomotives, I've had to chase parts that fell off, and re-rig chains and boomers, etc that the driver couldn't see while en route. It's also a good idea to guard it while the driver sleeps. Some truck stops are the kind of places where they'll steal your spare tire in the middle of the night, then try to sell it back to you in the morning. An ounce of prevention....

We met at the McHugh Steam Special on the WMSR last year, glad to have met ya and thanks for the pointers! We're trying to do this as properly as possible!

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

Brian Norden wrote:

Another problem with a flatcar move. Saw this one a number of years (decades) ago when the UP donated the Baldwin-Westinghouse freight motor from Yakima to the then Orange Empire (now Southern California) Ry Museum.

Some of the tie-downs were made to the truck safety chains and not to a body member. It arrived with some of the safety chains broken and at other locations the hooks for the safety chains were broken.

Undoubtedly caused by not have someone to inspect/supervise the loading operation, etc. Don't expect the railroad employees to care, etc.

Should this be how the locomotive moves, we do have the services of a trusted Rail.servcies provider working with us to make certain that whatever mode is chosen is done so with the most care and attention to detail.

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

PMC wrote:

Here's the same information as the OP but with a photo included: https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... ion-of-s2/ Curious where the photo was taken, and what the car behind it is, looks like one of those St. Louis Car Co. hospital cars made into a generator car.

For more photos and updates, check our Facebook page linked above in Alexander's original post.

Luther Brefo · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:40 pm **Posts:** 51

dieselloco wrote:

After seeing the picture all I can say is good luck! Even if you could swap the trucks for roller bearing trucks the effort is really not worth it. Alignment control couplers, functioning air brakes, good wheels, plus usually locos in industrial applications are beat to hell! Get a flat car and maybe a gondola for the trucks. Plain bearings have been outlawed from interchange for 30 years. You can run just about anything on your own railroad. The Wheeling and Lake Erie used plain bearing cars for many years after being outlawed. You just can't interchange them. Just have everything ready and you only need cranes for several hours on each end of the trip.

I'm lending my own roller bearing idler trucks for this effort, free of charge. We're aware of the constraints and working with and within them. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

jayrod · **Posted:** Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:23 pm

Roller bearing trucks makes a huge difference especially if you have jacks handy and can avoid the crane cost. Wedges in the coupler pockets may be acceptable depending on who hauls it. Then do the brakes which should be easy enough without a giant expense.

It would be nice to see it come home.

Btw, journal brass is a misnomer. They’re actually a babbitted bronze alloy that looks like brass. At least in freight car land. Same thing on traction motor support bearings unless Alco bucked the norm. Brass is softer and deforms easier.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2611

Brian Norden wrote:

Don't expect the railroad employees to care, etc.

That's the thing, NOBODY on either of these Class I railroads want this thing on their railroad, because it is the most likely to cause them problems of any equipment they handle: management sees it as something that could delay their trains and cost them money, the operating employees see it as something that will interfere with their early quit. If anything they are likely to subject it to much rougher handling so that they can park it on a rip track and go about their normal switching. I'm saying this as someone who hopes to see it preserved.

Nova55 · **Joined:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm **Posts:** 596

We just had an NW2 inspected to be interchanged with a class one. 6 air and non alignment couplers.. Was not an issue.

QJdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:57 pm

Thanks for the shout out, Luther, and best of luck with this move. Looks like it won't be necessary for me to recommend JC McHugh if you fellas decide you need some high powered assistance.

Take Care & WORK SAFE,
Sammy

dieselloco · **Joined:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:31 pm **Posts:** 71

Luther I certainly didn't mean to give offence! I did the locomotive thing for almost 30 years. Just trying to let y'all know what I would think would perhaps be the least painful way to do it. Running Alco's at this point must be getting mighty thin. Be safe, have fun, good luck!!! Also to nova55 love to hear who took it in interchange. UP damaged two GP-9's in Provo Ut yard about 20 years ago that I had purchased from the people running the Utah Railway. They didn't have alignment control couplers.

QJdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:58 pm

Don't forget the Larry, Moe, and Curly Joe factor. These guys usually bid the same job, and there's at least one such crew in every freight yard. And remember, above all...

Please Don't Feed the Switchmen,
Sammy

dieselloco · **Joined:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:31 pm **Posts:** 71

Sammy, we had a crew in Brewster Ohio on the W&LE in the early 90's. They would take vacation at the same time because they hated working w anybody else. These were Nickle Plate guys. Always bidding the transfer job that ran weekdays from Brewster to Akron and back. Those guys would outlaw EVERY day at the service track derail whether it was on or off. They would go on vacation and the extra board crews would be back in like 7 hours! Finally, I asked one of them about it. He told me the railroad gave him 30 days off in like 1967 and he's been getting it back ever since.....

dieselloco · **Joined:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:31 pm **Posts:** 71

Almost forgot, they still bitched about when N&W took the Nickle Plate over in 1964

Effort To Save WM S2 144, Currently in Canada

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