It is currently Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:55 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 574 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 39  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2603
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Randall ;)

AlcoC420... just because they're bastards, doesn't mean the only bastards or the worst ones.

If you hated Susette Kelo for many years, and suddenly the City of New London takes her house unfairly, you have two choices. Schadenfreude, you win becuase she loses, and cheer the city's action. Or the Niemoller viewpoint, which is "Holy smoke, that could happen to me next!" While she is bad, the city is worse, and so support her defense.

Odd bedfellows and all that.

Did ITM mess up? Been talking to their old-timers all day, the answer is oh yes and in more ways than have ever been discussed here. Everything about the Forest Park site *feels* oddly temporary, like they knew it didn't belong to them and so they didn't commit. Finding a permanent home had been heavy on their minds from the day they moved in there, but it never lined up and yeah, they'll admit wasn't made the priority it should've been.

And all their stories ring just like every other railroad I know intimately: MiTM depending too much on the airbase, SMRS turning away the Lackawanna coaches instead of trucking them up, TA&W splitting the switch on finding a new home. We all have them by the dozen. We are all bastards. But that's what it is to venture. It's easy to never make a mistake: stay in bed. Us out there doing it are gonna mess up. And the haters are gonna h8.

So who are we to judge?

What's also true is ITM had external forces working against them for their own gain. I have been convinced of that. They also had an inexcusable, deplorable internal schism which was made very public, and probably provided the opening for the external forces mounting against them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 489
Are there any updates to the ITM deposition list? I see one update in the N&W water tender is now leased to Kentucky Steam. I take it Milw F7B 68, The Navy Baldwin VO and Amtrak 663 are still set for scrap?

Robert


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
Are there any updates to the ITM deposition list? I see one update in the N&W water tender is now leased to Kentucky Steam. I take it Milw F7B 68, The Navy Baldwin VO and Amtrak 663 are still set for scrap?

Robert

GN heater car #13 was reportedly purchased by a reputable operation down south and is being prepped for transport as we speak. The destination is still unknown at this time.


Last edited by Cameron Wolk on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 489
Cameron, That is good news. I thought if anything made it out the heater car would be the least likely of all the remaining items.

Too bad for the Milw F units and VO 1000.

What is the condition of Milw #68?

I wonder if the VO-1000 could be moved a short distance by rail to the storage site of the N&W water tender? Looked like there is enough room to squeeze her in their storage yard. I really hate to loose anymore Baldwin switchers.

Robert


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11676
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
robertjohndavis wrote:
I can only go by what ITM has said. Equipment could have been left to the sheriff to take and then have the town deal with. Instead, ITM has chosen to play “screw you” games and insist that they will return the land with no trains.

So, if you following along at home, 1) equipment could have been left behind and 2) ITM has decided to ignore that and use the lease as an excuse to return the land empty.

You conveniently left out #3:
Anything left behind is the responsibility for the Sheriff's office to dispose of, and they can bill ITM for the cost of disposal, according to the judgement of a week or so ago. Therefore, anything for which they can't find a buyer or sucker grants the Sheriff theoretically open license to cost ITM untold amounts more money.

We've seen how "government" does things. "They" are perfectly capable of taking an item that could have been a saleable or even valuable asset, making it worthless, and charging the original owner for the privilege. It happens routinely with vehicles and other property impounded by police. You don't even have to be an anti-government conspiracy theorist to see this as a fact. We've also had the joke of a government contract for a job costing $150,000 because of paperwork, multiple inspections, minority/women-owned set-asides, prevailing wage conditions, environmental impact statements, etc., when Bubba's Trailer Co. says "I'll do it for ten grand....."

If there is rail equipment, or anything else there, that doesn't have people clamoring to take it off their hands legally for whatever price or donation, it literally behooves them to scrap it given that condition of the Sheriff being able to bill ITM whatever it fancies to dispose of it for them. Even if the scrapper isn't paying them for the metal, it's better than having the City decide by some convoluted accounted that it cost them $75,000 to call in a scrapper on the same terms.

This does not, of course, negate the possibility of actual spite and malice on the part of ITM officials. But at the same time, there is at least a fiduciary "excuse" for scrapping.

Incidentally, I was also told back-channel that the Milwaukee SW1 that was scrapped had ONLY been acquired as a parts source for the Monon SW1, was sitting on a shop truck, and had been painted by a well-meaning volunteer or two just to improve the looks of the place.......... so where were the Milwaukee fans for the time it had been sitting around?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
Cameron, That is good news. I thought if anything made it out the heater car would be the least likely of all the remaining items.

Too bad for the Milw F units and VO 1000.

What is the condition of Milw #68?

I wonder if the VO-1000 could be moved a short distance by rail to the storage site of the N&W water tender? Looked like there is enough room to squeeze her in their storage yard. I really hate to loose anymore Baldwin switchers.

Robert

On the spreadsheet it says the VO-1000 has an unconfirmed sale, can I assume that's SMS? I recall someone here was trying to get them to intervene maybe there's still hope.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 489
I've been in contact with SMS trying to find a buyer for the VO1000.

I am hoping someone knows Ed Ellis and has contacted Iowa Pacific about the Milw F units? Particular the F7 B unit considering how rare they are and how several RR's wanted one when NS dumped those three F units in the scrapyard in PA.

I have also been thinking about Carolina Southern but don't have a contact for them.

Robert


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 314
Happy to hear the GN heater car #13 was accounted for. Hopefully the Milwaukee road B unit makes it out in one piece as there is hardly any B units left out there.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 314
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
I've been in contact with SMS trying to find a buyer for the VO1000.

I am hoping someone knows Ed Ellis and has contacted Iowa Pacific about the Milw F units? Particular the F7 B unit considering how rare they are and how several RR's wanted one when NS dumped those three F units in the scrapyard in PA.

I have also been thinking about Carolina Southern but don't have a contact for them.

Robert


Ed is a good guy. I shook his hand and thanked him for buying the Minnesota Zephyr dinner train (complete with two F units) which went though a nearly identical eviction with the city not so long ago. That railroad was also land locked. Ed probably has his hands full right now. The two Minnesota Zephyr F units along with a ex CN B unit, and some other F unit are sitting on a siding all coupled together in Alamosa, Colorado. He doesn't run his operational F unit on trains anymore as he said sparks were coming out the stack and setting small fires. With the typically sold out photo freights, I would think there is a museum out there wanting a A-B-A configuration.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1020
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
I am hoping someone knows Ed Ellis and has contacted Iowa Pacific about the Milw F units?
I-P just lost a bridge and its concert stage to the Spring Fire in Colorado.
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
I have also been thinking about Carolina Southern but don't have a contact for them.
Aren't they defunct? I thought RJ Coman bought them out.

I also think their F-units are off the property -- I recall seeing at least one of them in Iowa Pacific's Alamosa yard.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 489
Ed is indeed very passionate about the F units. Still a chance Ed would intervene if he was aware of what's going on at ITM.

Who recently acquired the other two Milw B units that were scattered around the country? Maybe they're interested in having another Milw B unit? A a-b-b-a set is extremely rare.

Carolina Southern is a RJ Corman operation now. But their website still pictures the CN F units.

Is there an off chance NRE Silvis would be interested in the Milw F units either for future rebuild or as parts?

Robert


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:28 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm
Posts: 314
Chris Webster wrote:
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
I am hoping someone knows Ed Ellis and has contacted Iowa Pacific about the Milw F units?
I-P just lost a bridge and its concert stage to the Spring Fire in Colorado.
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
I have also been thinking about Carolina Southern but don't have a contact for them.
Aren't they defunct? I thought RJ Coman bought them out.

I also think their F-units are off the property -- I recall seeing at least one of them in Iowa Pacific's Alamosa yard.



The B unit and F unit were both former Carolina Southern. Unknown if they are operational but both in good condition and likely operational or nearly operational. Both F units from the Minnesota dinner train were formally blue carded and operational when they were bought.

I know we talked about that customer siding next to the park earlier. Can the railroad remove the passenger/ freight cars from the spur and put the locomotives in the siding thus off the property giving it more time to remove them if they exceed the dead line?

Also what would happen if the museum moved a train down the rails? Obviously they are forbidden to use the rails, but considering there is no more traffic on the rails how serious of a crime would that be? Has anyone in the past ever used unauthorized rails in a similar circumstance? Would be a interesting court case.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:31 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 489
The N&W water tank and N&W baggage car I believe are awaiting removal by new owners. I know the water tender is going to Kentucky at some point.

I agree. Push the Milw F units and VO 1000 up in that siding if possible. Move them down the track in the dead of night if need to be. More than one move on mainline rails was done this way.

Looking at photos from earlier it would appear the Baldwin would fit with the other cars.

Robert


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:39 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2499
superheater wrote:
"In other words, they would rather torch it than leave it behind."

I fail to see why they should leave something behind for somebody else to capitalize on. If they did, it would only encourage this sort of stuff in the future.


I guess it comes down to whether we think our mission is to collect old trains or to preserve artifacts.

If the asset has historic value, its survival should trump all else, even when that is a hard pill to swallow. If one wants to argue that winning a pissing match is more important to a railroad museum than the survival of the artifacts, it pretty much pulls the rug out from under any claims that railroad museums are as legit as other kinds museums. That’s not good for anyone.

The good news is that we’ll never find out how far the “scorched earth” policy would have gone at ITM. Fortunately for the assets’ sake (as as everyone here knows) AOS, the Kentucky steam team, Jason & the #503 donors, and a handful of other individuals and organizations have been able to step in and bail out most of the assets.

Had they not, the “if I can’t have it, you can’t have it” outcome would have been catastrophic from an historic preservation POV.

Rob

_________________
Rob


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:53 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1020
Photo gallery posted on the Indianapolis Star's website: See a Nickel Plate 587 steam engine as it's transported piece by piece


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 574 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 39  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], SteamEnthusiast4000 and 55 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: