"Light Grey" is true for coal also.

Continuing with the thread drift, this video from the UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4J2wcDP3YA talks about firing coal to a light grey haze. It's also interesting to see how they use overfire air through the firedoor to burn off the volatiles after adding fresh coal then close the opening as the fire settles in.

It is very nice to see that 1361 is in good hands and will likely see steam in the not too distant future.

Roger

I think the restoration has real hope now, with the assemblage of talent.

But the political/community issues still remain open as a result of all this. I remember five years ago when this article came out in the Altoona Mirror, and it stuck in my memory:

https://www.altoonamirror.com/news/loca ... ves-along/

You have to admit that from a community standpoint rather than equipment preservation, good question. This didn't exist when this restoration started.

I remember the first time I heard about the concept of pulling if from the curve and putting it back into operation - it was about '85 or so, and the first time the museum heard about it was when they got a call from US Rep's Geist (dec'd) office saying the state appropriation was in for the project and they needed to put in an application for it.... i.e. it was a local political animal from the start, not a museum or operational originated concept. I was told it was a complete surprise to the museum at the time.

You can fix the firebox, but operationally, I think those issues remain as to the ultimate use of the locomotive.

At that time the regional political horsepower at the state level with Geist and the national level with Shuster was simply unparalleled - both had seats on Transportation. And it's still a state bird, I very much doubt you'll see any home outside PA given the state investment. But the value as a re-election tool is long passed.

One of the points about the 1361 restoration is that the "other K4" represents the accurate-historic-fabric alternative. That allows much more of a 'free hand' with changes that make the locomotive better suited for operation with minimum 'visual difference".

I was not a fan of making a stainless-steel tank with fake rivets, but it accomplished a purpose in this sense.

Thank you, Mr Laepple, for the ground truth evidence.

Cheers,

Bob

Regarding Penna. K4s requiring Class 4 or 5 fire box repair within 24 months, (recollections of a Harrisburg, PA roundhouse foreman) seems a bit much even in periods of heavy traffic. Perhaps a better steam generator, is there something about the Belpaire design that makes it more susceptible to problems, say water leaks from the crown sheet staying than radial configurations? Assuming the class repair was not scheduled, what would cause a roundhouse foreman to recommend taking a locomotive out of service for back shop work within 24 months of the last class repair, i.e. number of broken, leaking stays or on inspection or crew complaints, seeing cold spots in the fire bed due to water leaks through the crown or side sheets?

Speculation on my part:

A. Fireboxes were considered wear items back at that time, just like I think of brake pads for my car. It was not a bad thing at all to have to replace them before corrosion had a chance to waste away enough thickness to be a safety concern. It's already been mentioned how the PRR basically had an assembly line process for the thousand or so identical fireboxes in the fleet.

B. K4's design was old and under powered for what the PRR was trying to have them do and the corporate philosophy was to beat the (Explicative Deleted) out of them to get trains over the road on time.

The world has changed. Nowadays, in Preservation Times, between the economic need for hardware to last many years and the need to pass the FRA mandated periodic inspections, it is far more important for various components to exceed the bare minimum to allow for corrosion wasting metal away.

Brian

RCB --

My late father-in-law was a gang foreman at the Harrisburg roundhouse, not the overall foreman. However, he was very observant of the environment surrounding him at the time of his service there, and he told me many of the things he saw. The PRR did not use the best quality of coal, even for passenger service, which may have contributed to the erosion of the steel of the firebox sheets. In addition, the PRR's motive power philosophy seemed to be if an engine is sitting still, it is costing money. Therefore, engines were turned as quickly as possible and went right back out, as I mentioned, on heavy passenger, mail and express trains. Harrisburg was a choke point on the PRR, with trains coming and going in five directions around the clock, and every train either underwent a change of power or originated there. There was no time to lose on minor repairs, and engines went out of Harrisburg with all sorts of minor problems that could or would be handled at the next service point or the next time the engine returned to Harrisburg.

Great point Wayne, I've had a PRR family story without explanation where my uncle did 'one day' as a student fireman on the PRR working Oil City-Olean on a loaded coal drag to Buffalo in the early 50's- presumably an I-1 Decapod, and said 'he never worked so hard in his life and never did again' and promptly quit when he got to Olean. (I even met his instructor decades later that verified the story). Yet, if any PRR power was needing stokers, it was the I-1, and what I've read, they even had dual stokers..... so I've always wondered it a stoker failure was the basis of the story or if they deliberately shut them down to see what a rookie fireman could do.... He's long deceased but I remember him saying 'I never sat down once'.... The 'keep 'em moving' concept may explain it.

In 1938, the ICC required stokers on freight engines with weight on drivers over 175,000 lbs.

A PRR I1sa with feedwater heater weighs 352,500 lbs on drivers. I believe PRR voluntarily installed stokers on these big engines long before the mandate.

The "dual stokers" were probably Duplex Stokers which had two augurs on the backhead.

The H10s 2-8-0 weighs 223,000 lbs on drivers and PRR dragged its feet installing stokers on them after the 1938 edict. I think some were retired in the 1950's, still without stokers. This may be the engine your uncle fired.

Phil Mulligan

I asked a few friends who are local railroad buffs and collectors of railroad history just how busy the railroads were during WW2. The Santa Fe through Streator Illinois in the month of July 43 ran 10k trains through here. That's why the railroads were blowing through overhauls in 2 year periods. They literally were running their locomotives harder faster longer than they ever had been before and not having the ability to replace worn-out equipment at the same time. How many engines that should have been scrapped were dragged off the scrapping line back into the backshops and rebuilt and thrown back out on the mainline.

Any word from today's press conference?

What this press conference talk about, see nothing on web???

I haven't found any report of it yet.

"Railroaders Memorial Museum
6d ·
Help support The Spirit of Altoona by joining the Railroaders Memorial Museum for The Juniata Jewel Jubilee this Saturday, May 6 from 10AM-7PM! Join the Everett Railroad Company at 12PM for a steam excursion benefiting the K4 restoration! At 3PM, FMW Solutions will hold a press conference panel. Learn more about the birthday party at www.railroadcity.org/events.

There are four photos attached to this May 6, 2023 tweet: Celebrating Pennsylvania Railroad K4 #1361 and getting updates on her restoration