There had been some discussion in the past on RyPN about steam era coal docks that are still in existance today. The new (MAY 2001) issue of TRAINS has an article on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic so this question may have a bit of relevance. I was aware that the wooden coal dock at Chama, New Mexico was still in existance (although I am not sure if it is still used today.) The 2001 ROCKY MOUNTAIN RAILROAD CLUB calendar has a photo for March 2001 of D&RGW 2-8-2 #498 taking coal in Antonito, Colorado back in June of 1967 at a coal-loader. Does anyone know if this "Red-Devil" coal-loader is also still in existance there at Antonito (now on the C&TS) and if so, if it is still used to fuel the tenders of the C&TS Mikes?

Thanks.

midlandblb@cs.com

Am pretty sure they use a loader(4-wheel) in Antonito and the same mostly in Chama, although the Coaling tower there is operational for special uses, but they would rather not put the wear and tear on it.
Interestingly, I was just watching some old films I had transfered from the 50's and 60's of this line, and there was a huge coaling tower at Antonito, and Durango had one similar to Chama's.
I think Antonito might have had one as well, but have to look again. The one at Alamosa must have had 10 chutes, and in one scene a doubleheader is taking coal before pulling a freight to Antonito.
Greg Scholl

Videos

sales@gregschollvideo.com

> Am pretty sure they use a loader(4-wheel) in
> Antonito and the same mostly in Chama,
> although the Coaling tower there is
> operational for special uses, but they would
> rather not put the wear and tear on it.
> Interestingly, I was just watching some old
> films I had transfered from the 50's and
> 60's of this line, and there was a huge
> coaling tower at Antonito, and Durango had
> one similar to Chama's.
> I think Antonito might have had one as well,
> but have to look again. The one at Alamosa
> must have had 10 chutes, and in one scene a
> doubleheader is taking coal before pulling a
> freight to Antonito.
> Greg Scholl

The Red Devil in Antonito was supposed to be turned over to the C&TS in 1970, unfortunately the scrapper wasn't informed so it got cut up. The only thing to survive was the nifty enameled steel sign which was given to me many years later. The large coal docks in Alamosa and Antonito were very different from Chama and Durango, using a trestled ramp to run the cars up to dump into the bins. Theu were both removed and replaced by Red Devils in the late 1950's.

The Chama tipple is basicly serviceable, however normally the locomotives are coaled by a front end loader. In order to use the tipple the coal would have to be transloaded into drop bottom gons, run up to the tipple and dumped. This is a lot of extra work and you end up breaking the coal into smaller and smaller pieces. Normally the coal is dumped twice (from truck to ground to tender), using the tipple it gets dumped 5 times (from truck to ground, to dump gon, to tipple grizzly, to tipple to tender).

earlkctsr489@webtv.net

Earl Knoob is a good authority for your answer. In the image I posted above with the Rotary OY, Earl was the guy in charge, and the pilot on that most recent plow run in 1997! That should lend credibility if you didn't already know of him.
Steamingly,
Greg Scholl

Videos

sales@gregschollvideo.com

> The Red Devil in Antonito was supposed to be
> turned over to the C&TS in 1970,
> unfortunately the scrapper wasn't informed
> so it got cut up. The only thing to survive
> was the nifty enameled steel sign which was
> given to me many years later. The large coal
> docks in Alamosa and Antonito were very
> different from Chama and Durango, using a
> trestled ramp to run the cars up to dump
> into the bins. Theu were both removed and
> replaced by Red Devils in the late 1950's.

> The Chama tipple is basicly serviceable,
> however normally the locomotives are coaled
> by a front end loader. In order to use the
> tipple the coal would have to be transloaded
> into drop bottom gons, run up to the tipple
> and dumped. This is a lot of extra work and
> you end up breaking the coal into smaller
> and smaller pieces. Normally the coal is
> dumped twice (from truck to ground to
> tender), using the tipple it gets dumped 5
> times (from truck to ground, to dump gon, to
> tipple grizzly, to tipple to tender).

Earl:

Thank you for the info. Would be neat if you could take a photo of that sign and scan it and put it on RyPN for us to see. A couple of other questions (if you know the answers.) Was "Red Devil" a nickname given to the two coal loaders by the railroad (or Rio Grande railroaders) or was it the actual corporate nickname for the loader? If the latter, what was the name of the company that built them (or was Red Devil the proper corporate name?) Were there any of these on the standard gauge lines of the D&RGW? And finally, do you happen to know if any were built on any other rail lines besides the Rio Grande?

Thanks again.

midlandblb@cs.com

Ross and White Company of Chicago was one of the engineering and construction companies that designed and sold locomotive coaling and ash handling plants (Roberts and Schaefer, and Ogle Const. Co. were others--all located in Chicago).

R&W sold the "Red Devil Engine Coaler", which was a heavier and more permanent version of the typical retail coal dealer's conveyor hoist (and R&W's competition had their own versions of the Red Devil). It was suited for modernizing smaller terminals where the massive 150-500 ton concrete coal docks were overkill, due to only a few locos being coaled daily.

At the high end, the Red Devil had a pull-down coal chute ("gate" as they were called) like the larger coal docks. The lower end was in a shallow concrete bin located under a slightly raised track, so that a coal car could dump directly onto the lower end of the conveyor. Pulling down the coal chute activated the drive motor and started the flow of coal up the conveyor into the tender. A simple, neat rig. Most of these replaced locomotive cranes with clamshells, or hand loading of tenders. Western Maryland Scenic Rwy. has rigged up something very similar at their Ridgely Yard.

hpincus@mindspring.com

> Ross and White Company of Chicago was one of
> the engineering and construction companies
> that designed and sold locomotive coaling
> and ash handling plants (Roberts and
> Schaefer, and Ogle Const. Co. were
> others--all located in Chicago).

> R&W sold the "Red Devil Engine
> Coaler", which was a heavier and more
> permanent version of the typical retail coal
> dealer's conveyor hoist (and R&W's
> competition had their own versions of the
> Red Devil). It was suited for modernizing
> smaller terminals where the massive 150-500
> ton concrete coal docks were overkill, due
> to only a few locos being coaled daily.

> At the high end, the Red Devil had a
> pull-down coal chute ("gate" as
> they were called) like the larger coal
> docks. The lower end was in a shallow
> concrete bin located under a slightly raised
> track, so that a coal car could dump
> directly onto the lower end of the conveyor.
> Pulling down the coal chute activated the
> drive motor and started the flow of coal up
> the conveyor into the tender. A simple, neat
> rig. Most of these replaced locomotive
> cranes with clamshells, or hand loading of
> tenders. Western Maryland Scenic Rwy. has
> rigged up something very similar at their
> Ridgely Yard.

Howard:

Thanks for the information.


midlandblb@cs.com

The Colorado & Southern had Red Devil loaders at Fort Collins and Leadville. Fort Collins was removed soon after the end of steam in 1959, but the one at Leadville lasted into the 1970s, until the coal-fired rotary plow was donated to the Colorado RR Museum.

> Earl:

> Thank you for the info. Would be neat if you
> could take a photo of that sign and scan it
> and put it on RyPN for us to see. A couple
> of other questions (if you know the
> answers.) Was "Red Devil" a
> nickname given to the two coal loaders by
> the railroad (or Rio Grande railroaders) or
> was it the actual corporate nickname for the
> loader? If the latter, what was the name of
> the company that built them (or was Red
> Devil the proper corporate name?) Were there
> any of these on the standard gauge lines of
> the D&RGW? And finally, do you happen to
> know if any were built on any other rail
> lines besides the Rio Grande?

> Thanks again.


ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

At the Carbondale, Illinois yard the IC / CN still has two of the concrete towers in place. I can't see any equipment left with them just the concrete towers. A few years back they also had a small turntable that they turned Amtrak engines on for the Illini run to Chicago. The turntable is gone now, and the train is wyed. I need to document the towers before they are destroyed also.

> Ross and White Company of Chicago was one of
> the engineering and construction companies
> that designed and sold locomotive coaling
> and ash handling plants (Roberts and
> Schaefer, and Ogle Const. Co. were
> others--all located in Chicago).

> R&W sold the "Red Devil Engine
> Coaler", which was a heavier and more
> permanent version of the typical retail coal
> dealer's conveyor hoist (and R&W's
> competition had their own versions of the
> Red Devil). It was suited for modernizing
> smaller terminals where the massive 150-500
> ton concrete coal docks were overkill, due
> to only a few locos being coaled daily.

> At the high end, the Red Devil had a
> pull-down coal chute ("gate" as
> they were called) like the larger coal
> docks. The lower end was in a shallow
> concrete bin located under a slightly raised
> track, so that a coal car could dump
> directly onto the lower end of the conveyor.
> Pulling down the coal chute activated the
> drive motor and started the flow of coal up
> the conveyor into the tender. A simple, neat
> rig. Most of these replaced locomotive
> cranes with clamshells, or hand loading of
> tenders. Western Maryland Scenic Rwy. has
> rigged up something very similar at their
> Ridgely Yard.


rrtp@midwest.net