Just curious to some info on the 765's auxiallary tender. A little history on it would be nice.

thanks

The tender, if I remember correctly, is a cut-down tender originally from a Louisville and Nashville M-1 Class 2-8-4. These locomotives were called "Big Emmas." A good number of the tenders made it into work train service for the L&N, or were used as diesel fuel cars. I believe C&O 614's tender is also of the same heritage, as well as the aux tenders used behind N&W 611 and 1218.

I'd be interested to know if anyone knows which locomotive the tenders came from. The original Baldwin tenders that came with the first group of M-1s had sagging problems. I think this was corrected with the last group, built by Lima. For a year or so after steam ended on the L&N, they kept a bunch of M-1s stored in DeCoursey Yard, across the river from Cincinnati. When they sent them to scrap, they would remove the tenders, and then torch the cab overhang off, and couple the locomotives back to back for the final journey.

thanks for the info. i take it that the 765 group still owns it and stores it at fort wayne?

They do still have it. I believe some brake work is on the punch list before it rolls out with 765 again.

David may be right. I can say that 765 had been running a few years before getting an auxiliary tender. If it is an M1 tender, it probably came from Irondale. In 1977 or 1978 Purdie acquired the remaining M1 tenders that David mentioned. Family Lines had used them in weed sprayer service, but the all still had their striping and L&N numbers visible. They were all from the 1949 Lima order.

(Bill Purdie also collected several tenders still in work train service on Southern at the Irondale steam shops, and only a few of them were ever converted into water tanks for the steam excursions. In 1985 or so, during a general cleanup, most of the tenders went for scrap, including the remaining N&W-era water car (made from a Class Z tender and used behind Class As) used behind 4501 from 1969 to 1977 or so.)

The tender from M1 1975 went into service behind T&P 610 in 1978, with coal bunker roofed over. In 1984 it was cut down for use behind SOU 4501, and later accompanied N&W 1218. In 1994 it was used behind N&W 611 painted tuscan red. I believe this is the one Steve Sandberg bought for use behind MILW 261.

The tender from M1 1984 was pulled from the stash for use behind N&W 611. In 1989 this tender went to Indianapolis behind NKP 587 as partial payment for its appearance at the Asheville NRHS convention.

In 1988 a third tender (I believe it was 1979, but I'm not sure) was pulled from the stash and rehabbed for use behind 611. I believe this is the one at VMT in Roanoke.

JAC

John,

The tender given to the 587 people wasn't the one from 1984. The tender from 1984 survived intact with coal bunker and was purchased by the Kentucky Railway Museum at the NS steam auction. It still wears its L&N applied numbers and stripes from locomotive service, and even still had coal in the bottom of the tender.

The tender used behind 610 and I think later 2716 came to Southern by way of the KRM. I the 1970s, the KRM acquired an L&N 70 ton Industrial Brownhoist steam crane, which came with a Big Emma tender as the fuel/water car. The crane was acquired from the scrap company, and Southern helped by donating to the KRM enough scrap freight cars in order to make the trade. The tender was then traded to Southern for 2 of the small water cars that L&N 152 used in its excursion service.

Thanks. I took that number from the January 1983 TRAINS article on 611's return to service.



I didn't realize this one came separately - thanks. Yes, this tender was used behind 2839 and 2716, as well as 611 on her August 1982 test run.

However, I'm pretty sure the part about the trade isn't 100% accurate. 1975's tender went into service behind 610 in fall 1978 as SOU WT53, when the tender later used behind 152 was still in active service. It was Southern's WT49, originally converted for use behind 4501 in 1967. In 1969 4501 got an ex-CofG tender and the N&W auxiliary, and in 1970 WT49 got a coat of green paint and went into service behind no. 722 until it was retired in 1980.

WT49 went to KRM in November 1982, moving from Irondale to Danville, Ky., behind NKP765 as Purdie ferried it to Bellevue. It got a "Seaboard System" herald for use behind 152 in 1986, and was painted black for the NS tour in 1987. It was still black in 1988, when 152 ran on TTI.

That's the only auxiliary tender I ever recall seeing behind 152. KRM may indeed have gotten some tenders from Southern or NS, but I don't believe any ever made it into service behind 152.

JAC

JAC -

If the Water Tender (WT) created for the 4501 in 1967 was number 49, then does that mean that there were 48 more before it? Perhaps they were used in Steam Derrick or Work Train service as I am not aware of the Southern using Auxiliary Water Tenders like the N&W and other roads.

TVRM has WT52 which is used occassionally on GA trains.

I don't know, and I've never really thought about it, much less thought to ask someone.

If I were concocting a rationale from scratch, I would have assumed that the tender that became WT49 was numbered SOU 99xx49, Purdie just kept the last two digits, and the rest just got numbered sequentially.

But your theory makes sense. And the tank car used behind 4501 in 1966 was numbered WT16, which fits.

Run it by Paul or Doug - maybe one of them remembers.

JAC

L&N M-1 tenders have to rank up there among long term survivors, especially ironic since none of the locomotives made it into the preservation era. I just dug out my December 1972 edition of Trains to find that in fact the Baldwin tenders had problems with the cast waterbottoms sagging and causing leaks. I wonder how Lima addressed this problem? The tenders saved seem to fall into two categories. Those not cut down by the L&N were used in MofW service, mainly as tenders for wreckers, while others were cut down and used in weed spray or fuel transport service.

As for the trade issue, it came up back when the NS auction occurred. Some in the museum though we had just loaned 1975s tender to Southern, while others remember it as part of a larger trade for the two water tenders. While it wasn't a direct immediate trade, the correspondence I saw at the time was of the mind that we would keep our two Southern water tenders, and NS would keep the 1975s tender as a "trade."

What you thought of 152 pulling one separate tender is actually two. WT 49 is still lettered "Seaboard Steam Special" while the other is basic black with "Southern" showing through the paint. They are identical in construction. Since I'll be heading back home to Kentucky in a few days for the holiday, I may go down to KRM and snap a photo of the two tenders. They are sitting in the yard side by side.

Hi guys,

Don't forget there were a few numbered above WT49... WT52 is at SRM.

Along with M-1 tender for 1966

Randy

I thought all of the surviving tenders were from the Lima built M-1's. The 1966 was a Baldwin. Did a Baldwin tender really survive? It could be an interesting study to see what the L&N did to correct the sagging problems the Baldwin tenders had. Does the tender still have the coal pusher on it?

Thanks.

John Bohon