I don't know Canadian non-profit or tax laws, and of course references in this thread to 501(c)3 rules pertain to US regulations. Finding an accountant or attorney who is willing to donate a few hours of his time may prove useful, especially if you intend to engage in fund raising.

I recall a situation some years ago where a informal non-profit joint venture was not properly structured from the beginning, and it became a costly legal process to straighten things out later.

Alan Maples

A single locomotive (and tender) can be a train. A single locomotive carrying markers at the rear is a train under Timetable & Train Order operation. Number of cars has nothing to do with it, markers do.

I'm a bit taken back with the information that ownership has not been determined.

I think homework is the first order of business here - find out who the owner of record is, and approach that entity with a friendly offer to assist with their maintaining the locomotive. A nice, non-threatening mention of its shabby appearance making the community look distressed prompting your inquiry won't be offensive if done tactfully.

The owner might be amenable to helping you form a group to undertake the work, or at least give you a list of their requirements should you wish to do so. If the municipality owns it, they may have an umbrella you can just use rather than have to incorporate from scratch.

dave

I agree, do what is needed to protect her first. The pics I have of 6069 from 1971 show a high link fence around her and the two wooden cabooses that were with her then.

"group" like what - 501(c)(3) nonprofit? Or a buncha guys? Most railfans have colorful personalities. That's a fact of life. Part of the skill of being a museum volunteer is dealing with that, don't take things personal. Part of the skill of *managing* a museum is doing best to smooth that out. I've worked with museums that did that well and ones that didn't. Some will leave your museum over personalities no matter what you do. Some won't get along with any museum they join.

To say things are better in private hands -- I really doubt that.

I'm sure from the private collector's perspective it *seems* that way short term. Fact is, the artifact is only preserved until the moment the will is read... the siding is lost... interest is lost... the wife puts her foot down... or the divorce. What's more, the artifact depends entirely on the collector's personal largesse, and unless he makes it a priority, it will suffer benign neglect same as at a badly run museum.

That largesse is taxed. Unlike a nonprofit donation, a private owner in a 33% (state+Federal) tax bracket is throwing away 50 cents for every dollar he puts into the artifact. That's a LOT of money. He's wasting this money for a reason: to keep personal control via force of ownership rather than via social consensus with the 501(c)(3) board. Which is a pretty darn selfish reason that has nothing to do with the health of the artifact! At the least that extra 50 cents on every dollar would have helped the artifact.

So color me skeptical of private ownership as a long-term preservation strategy.

Project-6069 DID say who the owner was. It is the city of Sarnia. He just wasn't sure who owned the land, but I can not see the city putting their locomotive on anybody else's land other than their own.

OK somewhere we got derailed. I am sure I mentioned in one of my posts that the Locomotive or (train) is owned by the city and it falls under parks and rec to keep her looking good and to take care of any problems such as asbestos etc. The parks and city are being discouraged by the costs involved especially since there has now been two major asbestos removal jobs completed and now more asbestos is showing up in the cab. Once the cab problem areas are tended too, then work can begin.
After contacting our mayor to address the second asbestos problems, he advised me that they were looking for volunteers to help work on the loco. This makes sense as hourly wages for city staff and cost of materials and repairs soon adds up.
I hope that clears things up a bit.

Apologies for my misunderstanding.

You have an invitation - great news. Largest hassle solved.

Now a bit of publicity and see if anybody else is as interested as you are. Ask the Mayor to help you plan a meeting for interested citizens, and to assign an asistant in the municipality to work with you on the project.

A notice could be inserted in municipal utility bills, or otherwise distributed through official channels as a release. Probably a city meeting room could be used for the initial meeting. I'd encourage a little presentation showing how other cities have benefitted from local volunteerism helping to preserve big metal things like locomotives, followed by an invitation to start one at home.

Best wishes.

dave

Everyone has added some great ideas and tips thank you all very much. I am waiting to see what will be said at the meeting walkaround of the train to get the cities input. I am liasing with a city councillor who I will be meeting hope fully soon to discuss plans for the train.

that's great, now you can get started. Keep contact open with the Mayor. See what you are permitted to do. do they have any insurance restrictions? I don't know about Canada, but here in the Staes, people tend to be sue crazy, and this has hurt the rail fan. pretty much killed the Ohio Centrals excursion busness.
I know the asbestoes removal is expensive will the city let you do anything to the locomotive while this is taking place?
You might check and see if there are any grants you can apply for to help fund your efforts. sure wish I was closer, love to get my hands dirty on the ol girl.

Hello Dave.
Early days yet. I do need to get this meeting over and done and the asbestos sorted in the cab. Then preliminary work can start.

I understand where you're coming from K-5-a BUT, according to the 1929 CNR Uniform Code of Operating Rules page 8 under general definitions:

TRAIN - An engine, or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying markers.

So the question is: Are there a couple of marker lamps hanging from the tender? : )

Ok can we please get back onto the topic and drop this silly argument!
No the tender does not have marker lights on the back end!

Yep it does get frustrating when the group decides to go off on a tangent and debate ad nauseum a completely irrelevant topic.

I created a non profit organization 12 years ago to preserve a large stationary steam engine. I learned a helluva lot during the process. I made lots of mistakes, but we have done some good things and saved a lot of old historic iron.

Your best source of information is the Internet on how to form a non profit organization. You will find answers to a lot of your questions by just searching online. If you have specific questions post them and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability. That is as long as the train vs. engine debate doesn't degrade into a knock down drag out fight. :)

Thanks I will do some research but it sounds like it will be best to form a group and then become a chapter of a larger group.