It is currently Sat May 31, 2025 8:53 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Korea
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6469
Color and sound film taken in 1995 and worth viewing:

http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/vid ... eoclip.htm

I believe that these Decapods were built for Russia during the Second World War. Not sure how many were built nor by which American locomotive builder(s). Obviously, some made it all the way east to North Korea. I believe that these were built to standard gauge rather than 5' gauge, but I may be wrong on this. At least one was "dropped" on the loading dock in the U.S.A. and shipment refused. It was sent back to the builder and eventually resold to the MN&S, which also had a number of converted World War One "Russian Decapods" on its roster.

Wonder if any of these 2-10-0's still exist on North Korean rails?

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1314
Location: Pacific, MO
Where's a good valve man when you need them?
Neat video, but boy is she lame.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
I photographed one of these 2-10-0s on the cross border train in Tumen in 1987. She was in super condition then. Film was immediately put into my boot since, as suspected, Chinese police soon showed up wanting the film in my camera saying "Our Korean comrades do not like having their trains photographed".


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 1138
Location: Beaumont, Texas
America built two batches of 2-10-0s for the Soviet Union; one during World War I (of which the Frisco and other "Russian Decapods" were some that stayed stateside); and another during World War II. It appears that both ALCO and Baldwin built some of each.

Examples of both batches survive in the former Soviet Union. They were classified as YeA, YeM, YeS and Ye1. I am not sure which is which; I used to think that the WWI batch was one and the WWII was another; or that the Baldwin built locomotives were one class and the ALCO another. But; what little builder's data I have doesn't support any of this; so I am really not sure.

The main way to tell the WWI locomotives from the WWII locomotives are the shape of the domes. The WWII built examples appear to have a taller sand dome, while the WWI examples have a taller steam dome. There is a picture of a WWII examples (Yem 3927 + Yea 3736); the sand dome does appear to have been raised with some sort of extension in the middle:

http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/news.htm

Compare it to a "Russian Decapod" that stayed stateside:

Image

Image

In addition to North Korea; some of these went to China. Colin Garrett photographed this one at Jalainaur, China; it appears to be a WWI example (or is it WWII; the steam dome looks wider):

Image

They were classified as DK in China; one of these is derelict at Baotou Steelworks.

Some of the WWII examples were also sent to Finland, where they were classifed as the Tr2 class. One example is preserved at the Hyvinkaa Railway Museum; here is a beautiful live steam model of one. Notice that the steam/sand domes are different:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~animato/3003/js.html#jsr

Getting back to North Korea; Ron Ziel stated in Steam Under A Red Star (1993) that there were 400 steam locomotives left in North Korea. However, the news in recent years is that North Korea has sent them to China to be scrapped; even examples recently used on excursions:

http://www.farrail.net/pages/trip-repor ... l#schafott

So how many (few) are left is anyones guess. Probably not many. My Korean steam page disappeared along with the rest of my original website when my old ISP went away; but here that page on the Web Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200412100353 ... /korea.htm

_________________
-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project - New Address!

International Stationary Steam Engine Society


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:39 am
Posts: 534
Quote:
America built two batches of 2-10-0s for the Soviet Union; one during World War I (of which the Frisco and other "Russian Decapods" were some that stayed stateside)


My understanding is that these locomotives were ordered by the Imperial Russian Government. When the Bolsheviks overthrew the government they repudiated the portion of the order not already delivered (about 75%). The US builders were left with these less than desirable locomotives which they sold at fairly attractive prices to US roads. The Erie took a number which were leased to its (at the time) NYS&W subsidiary.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
Saw a DK 2-10-0 at Fushun coal mine in 1984. Still servicable, but not in steam. It was built by Skoda. The North Korean 2-10-0 was actually seen in 1989. Just checked my photos. It's # was 8143.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 1138
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Steve Singer wrote:
Saw a DK 2-10-0 at Fushun coal mine in 1984. Still servicable, but not in steam. It was built by Skoda. The North Korean 2-10-0 was actually seen in 1989. Just checked my photos. It's # was 8143.


There may have been a DK class that was built by Skoda. DK5 #250 is preserved in the Shenyang Railway Museum; it was built by Resita of Romania in 1958; #2927. Like the KD class and early JF class, the DK class included several different types of locomotives of the same wheel arrangement built by various foreign builders.

The Ye/DK class locomotives were probably reguaged and shipped by the Soviet Union at the same time the FD class (Chinese FD class as well) and US built S-160s (Chinese KD6 and KD7 class, the KD7 were the postwar locomotives that resembled the S-160) locomotives were shipped over. The Soviets were in the midst of helping the Chinese produce FD type locomotives when they backed out; the Chinese used what they learned to produce their own QJ class. Visually, the QJ looks like an FD class locomotive with a skyline casing.

More on Soviet types sent to China:

http://www.modelrussianrailways.com/library/china.html

(You may have know the above already; but others may not.)

_________________
-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Project - New Address!

International Stationary Steam Engine Society


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Louisiana
"Boy she is lame"

Is this caused by the eccentric crank being in the wrong place?

How do you correct this?

I hear some engine sound something like this when they are working really hard - but not this bad.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:50 pm
Posts: 96
The Chinese title "DK" is directly related to the North American name for a 2-10-0 locomotive - "Decapod".

There were five known classes of 2-10-0 used in China.

DK1 was a class of 26 locos built by Alco in 1919. Between 1921-23 Shahekou works built another 36. They were used on heavy duties in Manchuria, the last ones were withdrawn from Changchun depot about 1980. They looked very like the JF heavy 2-8-2 class.

DK2 was the first world war US built Russian loco. They were in China because the original Trans Siberian railway crossed north east China. It entered at Jailanur and passed through Harbin and Mudanjiang before crossing back into Russia at Suifenhe. From Harbin a "branch" line was built south to Port Arthur/Darien (todays Dalian). This is today THE major line through Manchuria. These lines remained 5' gauge until about 1930. The locos remained on the tracks when the Japanese gained supremacy and converted the gauge to standard. The locos remained with their gauge narrowed (probably by moving the tyres inward). So far as is known none were additionally imported from Russia.

DK3 was a small class of heavy locos built in Japan in 1937. Chinese publications state that they were withdrawn by 1955.

DK4 was a single metre gauge loco built by Osaka works in 1936. It was withdrawn in 1955.

DK5 were a batch of ten 1958 Romanian built locos. They were a slight modifcation of the standard post war Romanian design. 286 were built for the CFR (Romanian railways) between 1946 and 1960 and they were effectively a copy of the German 50 class. It is believed that all DK5 locos worked at industrial locations and not for China National Railways.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
I was very lucky to have been in China early enough that some of the oddball types were still running. On my last trip in 89 I finally got to my personal Holy Grail- the 2' gauge line from Jijie to Geiju that still had 2 Baldwin 0-10-0s running. Was gonna go back in 91 when word came the line closed.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:43 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:53 pm
Posts: 347
Location: Casa Grande, Arizona USA
A couple of those 2 foot Baldwin 0-10-0's still exist.

One is in the Beijing Railway Museum, the other is locked in a shed in Jijie.

TH


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rare film clip of An American built 2-10-0 in North Kore
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:57 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:53 pm
Posts: 347
Location: Casa Grande, Arizona USA
"They were classified as DK in China; one of these is derelict at Baotou Steelworks. "


Not quite correct.....

The loco is one of several held in a lock up compound at Baotou West loco depot.

At the same depot there are now quite a number of JS class 2-8-2. These are being held "in reserve" on the instructions of the Railway ministry.

TH


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dick_Morris, Google [Bot] and 106 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: