Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:43 am

Update:

On Saturday, September 20th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #23, Rainier Rails wrote:

359. Ransford (Lot #4386, Plan #2412U, 1916/35, 16S)--Tourist #4028/#6080--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to GN (1953) converted to rules instruction car #B-5 (1955) to BN #B-5 to display in Ham Lake, MN

Pictures:

1. In Chicago, August 1970: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?july10/07-03-10/GNB5_Chicago_IL_AUG1970_Instruction_Car.jpg (ABPR photo)

2. In Ham Lake, painted as GN #A1, August 2007: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=842397 (Matt Petersen photo)

Diagram:

1. GN #B-5, 11/1/1968: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb5.jpg (FOBNR photo) (click once to enlarge)

Via Eric Hopp, this car was scrapped around 10 years ago; some of the parts were salvaged for use on the GN #1084 Twin Ports (line item #94) at the Minnesota Transportation Museum.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:40 pm

Update:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 6th Post on Page #5, J3a-614 wrote:

Two other Pullmans may still be around, both of Baltimore & Ohio lineage.

One is Capitol City, which went through one of B&O's streamlining rebuildings, and which I recall seeing in a train some years back going somewhere, who knows where.

The only photo I could find of anything resembling Capitol City is this model shot of a 1938 Capital Limited equipment set, with solarium Capital Arms; Capital City didn't quite look like this when I saw it, having a sort of streamlined fin look around the rear door.

http://www.brasstrains.com/images/products/047506/DSC03416.jpg

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 7th Post on Page #5, Rainier Rails wrote:

J3a--

145. Capitol City (Lot #6275, Plan #3975C/I/T, 1929/38, 3C-1DR-buf-sol-lng-obs, Capitol Limited)--sold to B&O #7486 (1948) converted to coach #3308 (1957) to MofW #X-4047 (unknown date) to SMS Railroad Company (unknown date)--picture taken in Bridgeport, NJ, in March 2003: http://web.archive.org/web/20060214021326/http://www.jefflubchanskycpa.com/BOPRL-SMS-MR22-3DG571.jpg (Jeff Lubchansky photo)

Via Alan Maples, this car is still stored on the SMS as of just a few weeks ago, nice to know with no more recent photos of the car after the above from almost 2 decades back.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:56 pm

Car Identified (In Part):

On Friday, November 23rd, 2018, 14th Post on Page #37, Rainier Rails wrote:

Car Identified:

On Tuesday, August 26th, 2014, 13th Post on Page #21, Rainier Rails wrote:

Here's an interesting car:

Thread from February 2003: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5109

This was among the MILW and SOO equipment privately owned in Rockford, IL, at least some of which ended up being moved to the Colfax RR Museum.

Two possibilities for how this car was modified:

As posted in that thread by Peter Nicholson:

Peter Nicholson wrote:

I have been in the car - it is a kitbashed Pullman converted to MofW service with a new end fabricated at Milwaukee Shops using the 1934-pattern streamlined coach design.

As posted in that thread by Thomas Manz:

Thomas Manz wrote:

This appears to be most of an old 10-1-(-) sleeping car, and a short piece of a lightweight, open-platform branch line combine. The combos were built at the Milwaukee shops (in Milwaukee) in the mid-1930s. This bizarre mating must have been done in the 50s/60s, when combines for mixed trains were no longer in demand.

Well, using the 10-1-x configuration noted, here's what Tom Madden's CCR database tells us:

The Milwaukee Road acquired at the 12/31/1948 Pullman divestiture a total of 14 sleepers of the 10S-1DR-1C configuration (all from Lot #6043, to Plan #3973C, and all painted "MILW Std.").

Just for reference, there were a total of 30 10-1-1 sleepers built in Lot #6043, all originally for service on the Milwaukee Road; 14 of the other 16 cars were sold to: ACL (1), C&O (2), ERIE (5), NYC (4), and UP (2). The 2 remaining cars remained in Pullman ownership until listed as sold to scrap dealers.

As for the 14 cars acquired by MILW, most did not last long in Pullman lease, with 12 withdrawn between January and April 1949. The 2 remaining cars, Big Rock and Des Moines, were also withdrawn at that time, but re-entered Pullman lease in April 1955, withdrawn again in May 1956, and the Big Rock was again in Pullman lease from September 1956 to September 1958.

What I don't have is more info on the disposition of Milwaukee's heavyweight cars, including sleepers, so pinning down the history of this car shall remain open ended.

Also, was this car among the Rockville equipment acquired by Colfax, or was it ultimately scrapped?

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any photos of the car in question.

On Wednesday, February 25th, 2015, 9th Post on Page #29, Rainier Rails wrote:

Mystery Cars:

396. MILW baggage-express #2051 is owned by the Milwaukee Road Heritage Center in Montevideo, MN. Does anybody know what sleeper the #2051 was converted from? Thanks in advance!

Pictures:

As MofW #958001 in UP Armour Yellow, hallway side: http://www.montevideomrhc.org/MountRushmoreandExpress/slides/Baggage%202.JPG

As MofW #958001 in UP Armour Yellow, bedroom side: http://www.montevideomrhc.org/MountRushmoreandExpress/slides/Baggage%2002.JPG

Returned to MILW Maroon & Orange, June 6th, 2009 (hallway side): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1631823 (Matt Petersen photo)

I posted regarding the first car, the ex-10-1-1 in Rockford, in the "Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States" group on Facebook, and the former Pullman ID remains unknown, just that in MofW service it was #X-595, as posted by Justin Nelson. But, then I thought to ask about the second car, and Justin replied that records show the #958001 was modified from baggage car #1915. Wayner lists that the #1915 was rebuilt from:

396. Mississippi (Lot #6043, Plan #3973/C, 1927, 10S-1DR-1C, MILW)--sold to MILW (1948) rebuilt to baggage car #1915 (c. 1949) possibly to baggage-express #2051 (unknown date) to MofW #958001 (unknown date) acquired by the Milwaukee Road Heritage Center, Montevideo, MN (unknown date)

Justin further did say in regards to the first car that:

Justin Nelson wrote:

When the rest of the equipment was moved out, that car was scrapped. This info came from the owner. The 3 lightweight cars that were in Rockford with x-595 survived. One went to Colfax, WI and the other two were moved to the owners property outside Rockford.

According to a member of the Milwaukee Road email/list group on GroupsIO, the #X-595 was formerly the Othello, but this is not one of the 1927-built 10-1-1's as previously hypothesized, nor was it any sleeper sold to the MILW at the 1948 divestiture. There was a Plan #2410F 12-1 named Othello built in 1917, but it later went to tourist service as #2229 and was then sold to the SOU in 1947.

So therefore the MILW Othello/later MofW #X-595 was a car that MILW ordered from one of the builders and was always MILW-owned. Note, it also does not show up in the Pullman Lot list as compiled by Eric Neubauer, so it was either built before mid-1912 or was built by one of the other manufacturers.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:10 pm

Car Identified:

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 15th Post on Page #42, Rainier Rails wrote:

2 More Mystery Survivors:

I became aware of these 2 cars while going through the Pullman photo links that fellow forum member Wil Hata had listed on his now-archived RR Preservation Index website.

467. & 468. The Dennison Railroad Depot Museum in Dennison, OH, has 2 unknown Plan #2410 12S-1DR cars on site, painted in PRR Tuscan and numbered as PRR #7004 and #7006 (to continue from their ex-PRR Plan #3992 buffet parlor lounge, the #7007 Lambs Club [line item #441])

Their website claims that one of these is a former WWII hospital car, and that the other came from the Ohio Railway Museum (along with their ex-PRR Plan #3523A 6C-3DR Times Square [line item #62]).

To my knowledge, the OH RY Museum only had one 12S-1DR in their collection, the ex-PRR Plan #3410B John Greenleaf Whittier (line item #36), which had gone to Iowa Pacific as SLRG #9168. I don't believe that this 12-1 now at Dennison that reportedly came from the OH RY Museum is the Whittier, as that car was listed for sale earlier this year as part of the Iowa Pacific bankruptcy proceedings.

As for the other car, the same July 1999 issue of Herman Page's surviving Pullman list I referenced in earlier posts includes the following car at Dennison:

East Cumminsville (Lot #4868, Plan #3410A, 1925, Capitol Limited)--sold to B&O #7419 (1948) to MofW #911571 (1954) to Dennison Railroad Depot Museum (19??)

But again, I am not sure if the East Cumminsville is one of the two 12-1's now on site...from what few photos I could locate, I am leaning towards both being non-pediment-ended 2410's, whereas both the Whittier and East Cumminsville are later 3410 examples.

Photos:

1. 12-1 painted as PRR #7004: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4867341 (Nicholas Katz photo)

2. 12-1 painted as PRR #7006: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4867339 (Nicholas Katz photo)

I looked again at the photo above of the #7006, and this time I noticed that it had the B&O A/C roof duct, so I am now inclined to think that it is the ex-B&O East Cumminsville...

468. East Cumminsville (Lot #4868, Plan #3410A, 1925, Capitol Limited)--sold to B&O #7419 (1948) to MofW #911571 (1954) to Dennison Railroad Depot Museum (unknown date) and now painted as PRR #7006

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Herman Page's "Pullman Search", July 1999 edition

5. https://dennisondepot.org/equipment/

6. Wil Hata's Railroad Preservation Index: https://web.archive.org/web/20201017213841/https://sites.google.com/site/railwaypreservationphotoindex/by-railroad/pullman

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:53 pm

Update/Another Survivor:

On Friday, October 22nd, 2021, 15th Post on Page #43, Rainier Rails wrote:

Mystery/"Where Is It Now?" Car:

Another car from Wil Hata's website.

Plan #3585 10S-1DR-2C located in Jacksonville, FL, as of 1987, and lettered as SCL "Orange Blossom Special".

This car hasn't come up in this thread before now, neither as a mystery car, or as one whose current status was a question. Given the location and lettering, it is likely that this was a former ACL or SAL owned car, but that's not a guarantee either.

Photo:

1. 06/08/87, note that it has been modified with an open platform: https://www.flickr.com/photos/101561334@N08/10588311404/in/photostream/ (Gary Todd photo)

Via Alan Maples, this car is indeed still extant, located at the Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center, i.e., Union Station, in Jacksonville (same location as photo linked to in above earlier post, from 1987).

487. Plan #3585 10S-1DR-2C, likely to either ACL or SAL, to SCL, to display at Jacksonville Union Station as SCL Orange Blossom Special

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:40 pm

Car Identified (Likely):

On Friday, April 26th, 2019, 2nd Post on Page #40, Rainier Rails wrote:

Another Survivor:

446. Received info from Jacob Carey about this car, a former CSX MofW diner rebuilt from an as-of-yet unknown Club-series Plan #4025 (rebuilt) or Plan #3989 (original) 8S sleeper buffet lounge observation, now located at the Walkersville Southern.

2 Photos:

5/28/13: https://www.flickr.com/photos/meabbott/12220900126 (M.E. Abbott photo)

5/26/18: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8348059@N02/41495400595/ (Andrew photo)

Via Alan Maples, this is B&O #940754...

Alan Maples wrote:

B&O m/w 940754. One of two cars bought from CSX in 1991 by Gus Novotny Associates d/b/a The EnterTrainment Line (other was B&O m/w 940707). If I remember correctly these were both in Cumberland before moving to Union Bridge, MD.

I replied with...

Rainier Rails wrote:

Thanks! #940707 traces back to Class F4bn diner #1067 (later MofW #X-4058), but no trace for #940754. However...of the 15 total 3989/4025 cars that B&O acquired at the Pullman divestiture, only one is listed as going to MofW service, the Plan #4025 "Brook Club" (ex-Plan #2521 "El Arellano"; B&O #7325; MofW #X-4564). While not certain, probably a good guess that is the car we're looking at above.

So therefore...

446. Brook Club (Lot #4202, Plan #4025A/P, 1913/34, 8S-buf-lng, ex-Plan #2521 El Arellano, AT&SF/NKP)--to B&O #7325 (1948) to MofW #X-4564 (1960) to #940754 (unknown date) to CSX then resold to Gus Novotny-ENTX (1991) later resold to Walkersville Southern RR (unknown date)

So, while it is possible that this is not the Brook Club but another car, all of the other 14 3989/4025 cars on the B&O roster are listed as going to #3300-series coach-observations.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:50 pm

Corrections:

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 1st Post on Page #42, Rainier Rails wrote:

Update & Additional Mystery Survivors:

On Wednesday, April 9th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #16, Rainier Rails wrote:

Four More Survivors:

All of these cars are at the Florida Railroad Museum in Parrish.

308. Washington Square (Lot #4887, Plan #3523A, 1925, 6C-3DR, PRR Broadway Limited)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1958) sold to member of FRRM (when??)

309. Gray (Lot #4804, Plan #3523, 1924, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1950) sold to member of FRRM (when??)

It was reported in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook in July of last year that the Washington Square was scrapped at FRRM. Some of the parts taken from the car will be applied to the Gray (which is now riding on trucks acquired from Ringling Bros.). The WA Square was reportedly in bad condition, as compared to the Gray. (Pictures of the Gray from 2014 taken by the late Dean Levin can be found in this thread, 7th post on page #17.)

459. & 460. In the same discussion in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, it was reported that 2 additional former circus-owned 6C-3DR sleepers (unsure if from Royal American or Strates) were sold to an individual in Northern California and moved in that direction at an unknown date; no further info on the car names was given.

Inquired again about these 2 unknown 6-3 cars in the group, with resulting clarifications from Don Whatley and Alan Maples. These were not 6-3 cars, but instead was in reference to 2 cars from Royal American Shows which were indeed moved out to California; specifically acquired by Richard Weiner in Ft. Lauderdale, and then moved to the Fillmore & Western. The cars in question were the Plan #2522F 7C-2DR Raton (line item #310) and the Powhatan.

The Powhatan was built by Pullman in 1928 in Lot #6188 for the RF&P as a diner-parlor, later sold to RAS as #56. It was resold earlier this year to the Everett RR, along with coach Rancho Sespe (ex-FW&D #205; Pullman, Lot #4634, 1922).

As a result, line items #459 and #460 are voided.

Speaking of, any updates on if the Raton is still at FWRY, or if it has been sold/moved elsewhere with the changes there, would be appreciated.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

5. Eric Neubauer's Pullman Lot list

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm

Update:

On Friday, October 22nd, 2021, 2nd Post on Page #44, Rainier Rails wrote:

A "Where Is It Now?" Car:

Another car from Wil Hata's website.

Canonsburg (Lot #3813, Plan #2410, 1910, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8752 (1948) resold to (original) NS RY as MofW #912 (1952) to North Carolina Transportation Museum in Spencer (19??)

Again, another car which despite a photo in Jerry LaBoda's collection hasn't been discussed here previously. Does anyone have info on if this car is still at NCTM, if it has moved elsewhere, or if it is even still extant? Thanks in advance!

There was some confusion on Jerry's part between this car, and John Ringling's business car Wisconsin (built by Pullman in 1905), that went to NSRy in 1917 as the Virginia, later to the Atlantic & East Carolina RY and used as a fishing lodge (as the Carolina), then to NCTM, and is now at the John & Mable Ringling Museum of Art, in Sarasota, FL.

Photo:

1. 07/11/92: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=558840 (Russell Underwood photo from Jerry LaBoda collection)

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, with a response from Jacob Carey that this car was scrapped at NCTM.

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:53 pm

Another Survivor/Update:

On Friday, October 22nd, 2021, 13th Post on Page #44, Rainier Rails wrote:

More Potential Survivors:

These cars all come from Herman Page's Pullman list of July 1999. None have been discussed before in this thread. The info is now 22 years old, but if anyone has info on if any of these cars are still extant today, either at the locations listed from back then or elsewhere, that would be most appreciated! (Same goes on if any scrapping dates are known for now-gone cars in the below listing.)

Rankoka (Lot #4234, Plan #2410A, 1913, 12S-1DR)--sold to B&O #7446 (1948) to MofW #X-4381 (1953) to Aberdeen, Carolina & Western and stored in Aberdeen, NC (19??)

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and did some additional searching, seems this car is indeed still on the ACWR, located at the main offices in Star, NC, seems it has been in the same spot for many a year. So therefore...

488. Rankoka (Lot #4234, Plan #2410A, 1913, 12S-1DR)--sold to B&O #7446 (1948) to MofW #X-4381 (1953) to Aberdeen, Carolina & Western and stored in Star, NC (unknown date)

Photos, Both From 2009:

1. 06/25/2009 by "lzcdome": https://www.flickr.com/photos/23942903@N00/3681965359

2. 10/08/2009 by "railsr4me": https://www.flickr.com/photos/railsr4me/4011790803

Note: Google street view also shows this car, in the same spot, just within the last few years.

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:59 pm

More Info:

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 1st Post on Page #43, Rainier Rails wrote:

Another Mystery Survivor:

Another car found while perusing Wil Hata's website.

469. Plan #3416 plr [26]-1DR to unknown to Train Coach Restaurant, Tannersville, PA (196?) now the Tandoor Palace Indian Restaurant (19??)

Photo:

1. http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4128667 (Paul Koprowski photo)

On Saturday, November 20th, 2021, 5th Post on Page #46, baniaj2 wrote:

Additional information: Apparently 3 cars were purchased from the PRR and arrived in 1967 according to the local paper they arrived Altoona to Pocono Summit then trucked the rest of the way...This info seems too specific to be inaccurate. Hopefully this helps narrow the car's origins.

On Sunday, February 20th, 2022, 13th Post on Page #46, choodude wrote:

Google Maps / Street view and uploaded pictures of the Tandoor Palace in Tannersville PA show the car still exists as of a couple months ago. It at least has a coat of paint in reasonable condition on it. There's also 0-6-0 tank engine in front of it.

I posted an inquiry in the Surviving Passenger Cars group and did some more looking around using old satellite imagery via Google Earth. Replies to the inquiry indicated that the other 2 parlors which were moved there in 1967 were later scrapped to make room for the construction of an additional wing to the restaurant. This is confirmed by old imagery, which shows that the other 2 cars were moved to the side/out of the way by April 1992, and were gone entirely by April 1999.

Looking through Wayner's volume, I am now noticing that 3 cars are listed as sold to an "F.J. Young"...part of me wonders if this was the original owner/proprietor of the Train Coach Restaurant...or it could be an entirely different sale.

Plan #3416A/C (28 chair-1DR) Brink Haven (PRR #7064)

Plan #3416A/C (28 chair-1DR) Williams Grove (PRR #7118)

Plan #3992/C/E/F/G/H (13 chair-buffet-lounge) Professional Club (PRR #7011)

If this is indeed the Train Coach Restaurant sale, then the one remaining car on-site is of course 1 of the 2 Plan #3416 parlors, question remaining is which one.

Also found an old thread (mostly about the steam engine on-site [still there], a former Bethlehem Steel 0-6-0ST): http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35040

(Note that in the above thread that a photo taken by Mike Del Vecchio shows the other 2 cars still in-place, supposedly in the late 1990's.)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:03 pm

Update:

On Sunday, January 26th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #13, Rainier Rails wrote:

"Where Are They Now?" Cars:

Just to make sense of it all, I've added line item numbers to these cars.

284. Barberton (2nd) (Lot #4762, Plan #3410, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8729 (1948) to MofW bunk #493043 (1961) to PC to CR to NS??--according to the PRR extant passenger car list on http://www.altoonaworks.info/, the Barberton is now owned by Antis Salvage and stored in the west receiving yard in Altoona, sans trucks. Does anybody know if this car is still stored in Altoona, or has it been scrapped??

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and received a reply from Alan Maples, that this car was almost certainly scrapped at Hollidsaysburg in 1999 or even earlier, as...

Alan Maples wrote:

I recall there was a push to get everything out of there that had been sold before the Conrail split date.

Alan also mentioned another 12-1 in MofW service that was in storage at Altoona around the same time, CR MofW #45915, which was cut up on-site by Cresson Steel. Unfortunately I cannot get a "trace" backwards from that MofW number for a former name. (From the photo, appears to be a Plan #3410.)

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:54 pm

Via Alan Maples in the Surviving Passenger Cars group:

One more car that was at Altoona as of 1999 which was almost certainly scrapped by Antis Salvage...

Lake Merritt (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923, 10S-1DR-2C, Sunset Limited)--to PRR #8666 (1948) to MofW #493157 (1967) to PC to CR to NS photographed at Altoona in January 1999 stenciled "ship to Antis Salvage"

Photo:

1. PRR #493157 at Altoona on 01/26/1999: https://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/photos/prr-493157?fbclid=IwAR0uYjKZKW5gKGWXh6zhXrARqt7aDyhtKlRfjbe5DCMJ49pEMkgd81MISVM (Jeff Weaver photo)

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:33 pm

Update:

On Sunday, January 26th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #13, Rainier Rails wrote:

"Where Are They Now?" Cars:

Just to make sense of it all, I've added line item numbers to these cars.

279. Centburne (Lot #6205, Plan #3979A, 1928, 8S-1DR-2C, SOO)--sold to SOO #1257 (1948) to Jack Stodelle #1257 (1967) to Jack Stodelle-Bob Berray #1257 Maria Elena, painted as Sonora Baja California, and used for excursions in Mexico to PSRM #1257 (1989)--according to the PSRM website (http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/sl-1257/), as of 1999 the #1257 was still located in Mexicali for excursions--can anyone provide an update??--is the #1257 still in Mexicali, or has it moved elsewhere??--see here: http://www.sdrm.org/roster/passenger/sl-1257/sl1257-1.jpg (Corrine Gallagher photo)

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and received a reply...

Quote:

I believe that the Maria Elena, as well as an ex UP semi streamlined heavyweight named Mexicali Rose, were both scrapped in the 90s...We tried get these 2 cars across the border to Campo but we encountered too many obstacles to make it happen!

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:38 pm

Update:

On Friday, January 10th, 2014, 8th Post on Page #7, Rainier Rails wrote:

Some more survivors--

206. Trapper (Lot #6261, Plan #3979A, 1929, 8S-1DR-2C, SOO)--sold to CP (1948) to MofW #411249 to CNJ Rail Corporation and stored in Manville, NJ--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1999613 (Jesse Acorn photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3699165 (Philip M. Goldstein photo)

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and received a reply from Jacob Carey that this car has been scrapped.

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:36 pm

Update:

On Friday, January 10th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #7, MRLX1020 wrote:

I was looking at that car and trying to research another similar car at the St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern in Jackson, MO.
Through a local IC/GM&O passenger fan, I found out that the car in Jackson is the Matanzas - was originally used on the Havana Special, then ended up on the GM&O - could be a sister car to the Azalea? It's been a few years ago since I have been through the car, and I recall it having sections, and maybe a drawing room (could have been a lounge). Any info on it?

On Friday, January 10th, 2014, 15th Post on Page #7, Rainier Rails wrote:

Thanks, MRLX1020, for the info on Matanzas!

217. Matanzas (Lot #4979, Plan #3967A, 1926, buf-lng, Havana Special)--sold to GM&O diner-parlor #401 Camellia (1945) converted to instruction car #106 (unknown date) to #66658 (unknown date) to Paducah & Louisville (August 1986??) to St. Louis, Iron Mountain & Southern

Inquired about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and received a reply from Justin Sobeck that this car is indeed still located in Jackson, MO. Another user reported that it has been painted in a faux-SLSF Firefly scheme.

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

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