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 Post subject: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 11
Location: usa
Traveling by the museum and had noticed that the 0-6-0 br&p 152 is gone. All that is in its place is a small pipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8080
Location: Baltimore, MD
Friendly interpreter here...........

I presume this person refers to BR&P 152/ B&O 1190/ Ohio River Sand & Gravel 1190, an Alco-Brooks 1904 product long at the Mad River & NKP Museum at Bellevue, Ohio:

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... isplay=925

The Mad River & NKP Museum website has the answer at:

http://www.madrivermuseum.org/gallery/brooks/

Quote:
On Monday, November 15, the Museum's Brooks 0-6-0 steam engine was loaded onto trucks for its journey to its new home in Dunkirk, NY. The Brooks was built for the BR&P RR, (Buffalo, Rochester, & Pittsburg RR) in 1904. The BR&P was bought out by the B&O, and the engine ended up with the Ohio River Sand & Gravel Company where it initially was used by the Baltimore and Ohio railroad. The engine has been sitting on the museum grounds since 1979. The museum sold the locomotive and tender in 2008 after deciding it has no historical significance to Bellevue.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:39 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 2842
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Hope she gets a good home in Dunkirk; she's one of only three 20th century B&O engines around that I know of (the other two are 4500 and 5300), and the only surviving BR&P locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Northeastern US
Hmmm, Viscose 0-4-0T No 6 is based in Dunkirk... will we be seeing an operational 152 in coming years?

Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 840
she looks in the same state that I saw her in 15 years ago. anyone know whay Bellview didn't get a NKP engine?


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 2842
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Did a little looking around, and found these photos of some of these engines:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo390s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo391s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo392s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo393s.jpg

The partial roster that is from this from this site (Northeast Rails) has these engines in B&O class D-44, numbered in the 390 series, and that No. 391 is our BR&P 152 (may want to check this for accuracy).

Of interest in the photos, No. 391 has a high headlight (usual standard on B&O; other engines, with a centered headlight, appear to be the configuration as delivered or at least as inherited from BR&P)--and also has a B&O Capitol Dome emblem in the location where the number plate would normally go. If I remember correctly, this would date the photo to sometime after 1944 or so, when the B&O started to apply this herald on the front of its locomotives, reportedly to make them identifiable as B&O locomotives in published photos, such as would appear in Trains (I think Larry Sagle, who would have so much to do with establishing the B&O Museum some years later, was head of the road's PR department at the time, and may have had something to do with this).

From what I've been told (and I don't have any documentation on this, so someone may want to research this to correct or confirm things), the engine was sold to the gravel company, and did wind up on display in New Martinsville, W.Va., where like so many park engines, she rotted away. When I saw this engine in the late 1970s or early 1980s, she looked a lot like she did in the NKP musuem photos--a hulk with no boiler jacket, cab stripped, auxiliaries such as the air compressor all gone, plenty of rust, but major and unique or hard to replace parts intact, like all the valve gear. It's my understanding that the engine was threatened with scrapping, and the NKP museum moved in to save it. I think the engine may have some resemblence to some older NKP switchers as well (a comment that may need confirmation or correction). In any event, the NKP museum saved her, and now she will hopefully find good care in New York.

Strictly Personal Opinion follows:

This engine was apparently quite worn when it was retired by the gravel company, including its tires; the right rear tire even has the hollow, almost "double flange" effect visible in the photo above with the boiler being removed from the running gear. Who knows what shape the boiler is in. All that auxiliary equpment needs to be replaced, including a complete air brake system, both injectors, all plumbing, ash hoppers, etc. It would be an expensive job, and I can't say it would make business sense. On the other hand, does anything we do make business sense? (Heck, does anything business or government does today make business sense?)

I'll admit it, I like seeing anything run. This engine would be great at demonstrating switching with a string of cars such as the roster the Strasburg owns, and she's the last BR&P engine, and one of only three preserved 20th century B&O steamers To my eyes, she looks like something out of one of E. S. Dellinger's stories. You do have enough to bring the engine back. . . but how do you pay for it?


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4851
J3a-614 wrote:
Did a little looking around, and found these photos of some of these engines:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo390s.jpg

The partial roster that is from this from this site (Northeast Rails) has these engines in B&O class D-44, numbered in the 390 series, and that No. 391 is our BR&P 152 (may want to check this for accuracy).



According to J. David Conrad, BR&P #152 became B&O 390 (and eventually B&O 1190) and not 391.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Steam locomotive at bellview ohio gone????
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 2842
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Thanks for the corrections; I wonder when the renumberings took place from the 390 series to the 1190 series, and if it was precipitated by a diesel delivery (a lot of B&O's early diesels were receiving low numbers)--have to look up some diesel data. . .

But, oh no, I'm looking at that photo again, specifically at the seam on the top of the first course, and please, somebody tell me the engine does not have a lap seam boiler. . .


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