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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:12 am
Posts: 179
Location: North Wales and Australia.
The firebox from my exsamination is finished, The rest of the boiler need drastic repairs. A lot of work was done pre 2000 on running gear but never finished. There is also repairs to the frames of unknow date which may doupt the strength. You are taking a mega bucks job.This was more than was avalible in 2007 when exsamined for rebuilding, hence cosmetic job.

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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:58 pm 

Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 4:59 pm
Posts: 135
Nigel,

Not sure what you base your info on but the firebox of the 501 is far from complete!


During the disasterous restoration attempt with a boiler maker who has subsequently lost his certification and under the supervision of Mr Smythe the boiler is no better off than before they started.

Of paramount concern are the questionable "repairs" by the boiler maker to four of the throat stays. This alone will require the tubes to be removed.

In addition there are a number of stays that need to be replaced in addition to repair to an old, un-satisfactory (MEC) repair at the firebox door and the potential repair to the knuckle (were the rear tube sheet meets the crown sheet) and address an un-satisfactory repair at the blow-down valve.

In other words this locomotive is not going anywhere fast.

Things are a bit more cheerful in regards to the running gear. New pistons and rings are awaiting installiation, Air pump was rebuilt, the corners of the tender repaired along with many other misc. items by a small group of volunteers.

However, why these items and in particular the rods, pistons etc were not installed in the two years Mr. Smythe was the Master Mechanic following the failure of the hydro I simply cannot fathom. Eventually Mr. Smythe was asked to leave the property

As for young Mr. Daylight - I suggest you spend some time at Conway Scenic, Strasburg, The Valley and other fine organizations that boast a cadre of mature, staff and volunteers dedicated to preserving steam based on real hands-on knowlege before falling for a pied Piper.


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:12 am
Posts: 179
Location: North Wales and Australia.
When I said finished I mean life expired, needs replacing. If you look even at the rivets on the back inside corners you will find cracks in the plates. I would personaly say a new boiler is probrably the most economic repair.What you say about the other items is true.

I was with Paul Hallet, and the guys from Maine when we checked the loco in spring 2007 for posible restoring. Thats when the cosmetic option became the only coarse of action.

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Less words, more hardware. Only what others say can not be done is worth doing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:01 pm 

Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 4:59 pm
Posts: 135
Thank you Nigel for clarifing.

Best regards


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8455
Location: Baltimore, MD
Here's a translation from the North Welsh dialect of English for you Yanks:

"It's passed on! This boiler is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of fire, it rests in peace! If yer hadn't nailed it to the frame it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its thermodynamic processes are now history! It's off the rails! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BOILER!!"

[long awkward pause]

"Well, I'd better replace it, then....."

I think the other Britishism is "clapped owt," eh, mate? <:-)


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:16 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2436
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Here's a translation from the North Welsh dialect of English for you Yanks:

"It's passed on! This boiler is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of fire, it rests in peace! If yer hadn't nailed it to the frame it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its thermodynamic processes are now history! It's off the rails! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BOILER!!"

[long awkward pause]

"Well, I'd better replace it, then....."

I think the other Britishism is "clapped owt," eh, mate? <:-)


Thank you Mr Python...

Well, given that situation, it seems that "what should be done" is simple, "Start a very large fund raising operation if you ever wish to see this loco operate again!"


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm
Posts: 399
Location: Baltimore. MD
Daylight,

I think a great indicator in determining the ernestness of any web board is the use of actual names. This place means business and wishes to educate. More people use their real names on this board than any other board I read on the web. In fact, until we learn their bona fides, anyone showing up here brand new with a generic nom de webb is going to be greeted with some suspicion. You will find the folks here are serious about railway preservation and are always willing to have legitimate discussions based on actual facts. RYPN is no place for trolls or flamers, there are plenty of other places on the web to do that.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 410
What is so bad about static display? PROPER static display should be encouraged, as at least engines and equipment are tended to and preserved. Just look at the efforts put into 565 at Steamtown. Yes, the engine is slated for static display, but volunteers have replicated and repaired parts so that if the museum decides to one day make 565 operable, they are on a much more solid foundation.

This should be the guideline across the board, and it gives "static display" a good name.

It sounds as though this group has more than one project going, so the focus should be on whichever engine they feel stands the best chance of running again, if that is what their aim is. It only stands to reason that any other pieces in the collection should be treated to a proper static restoration, as it will only aid in future efforts to also get them underway.

My two cents.


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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:12 am
Posts: 179
Location: North Wales and Australia.
I for one would contribute to a new boiler for 501. It was very sad to see that it was not going to be restored at that time. I am very serious about steam and its future. My time at North Conway was a pleasure. The railway is great and deserves more suport. Nothing would please me more than to see 501 in the fall there working again.

Mr Mitchell, I would prefer if you did not translate for me.

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Less words, more hardware. Only what others say can not be done is worth doing.


Last edited by Nigel Anthony Hewer Day on Wed May 04, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 974
Location: Leicester, MA.
True, there is the leaking traction motor on the 4266, and the bad side panels on both the 4266 and 4268, so chances are it would take many years before 501 sees steam again. But, let's focus on the details of it's current preservation (I think that i stated this before), and the cosmetic job that is underway.

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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3784
Location: Maine
Nothing is wrong with static display, provided the display is prevented from further deterioration. When the 470 Club acquired the locomotive, it was assumed that some quick shopping, and viola! A breathing MEC Consol would be run. As is always the case with locomotives, something lurks hidden beneath the exterior paint, obviously, a disappointment to all parties. Perhaps the individual(s) who took leadership roles as mechanical officers weren't sufficiently prepared, perhaps the whole restoration was under-funded. I don't know. What I do know is that enthusiastic young people are needed to continue the steam power legacy, long years of intensive apprentice study are desired, and you never, ever, try to shame people into allowing you to have your desired outcome.
Get an accurate survey of the torn down locomotive. Assess what has been done, what remains to be done, and what mistakes were invested in by the previous parties. Form a dated plan for getting things done. Work with those who already have a role in the preservation. Get your hands dirty, listen, don't offer speculation and your own opinions, and learn. MEC 501 is not beyond operation, but it's obviously going to be longer than was thought.

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 Post subject: Re: The Maine Central 501: What should be done?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:24 pm 

Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 4:59 pm
Posts: 135
Daylight4449,

I believed once and still believe that the 501 is an excellent specimen for restoration. However, I can assure you it not only takes lots of money but more importantly people who are dedicated to the effort, have the experience and knowlege of various crafts and trades and above all... and this is very important........WORK WELL WITH EVERYONE.

Self-proclaimed experts who have left a debris field behind are not going to accomplish it. It would be a shame if your youthful energy and interest wwere wasted tied to a horse that's tangled itself into the barbed wire and dosent have enough sense to stop kicking at everything and everyone.

If you understand what Iam saying and have a real desire to work on the 501 contact Paul Hallet at Conway Scenic and/or the 470 Club and offer your services.

Yes, the 470 has several other projects going on but man power rather than money makes the diffrence wether or not they have the time to address a cosmetic restoration of the 501. Besides that those other projects will be a good way to meet other volunteers and they to meet you.


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