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 Post subject: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 1
Does anyone know the heritage of the open platform car that operates on the Durbin & Greenbrier Valley RR - Tygart Flyer? It is evidently West Virginia Central #120 formerly White River Scenic Railway. The car looks to be (or was at one time) a Plan 3521; 10 Section - Lounge - Observation.

Along the same line does anyone have any information about a similar car that was in Richmond, Virginia for many years? In the late 1960's it was home to Kennickell's Pullman Palace and I am sure had other uses through the years. It was advertised for sale by one of the car brokers a number of years ago. I am fairly sure it was a Plan 3521; 10 Section - Lounge - Observation. This isn't the Old Dominion Chapter's Dinwiddie County but a car with an open platform.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 244
I am going to bump this to the top in case somebody who has the answer has not seen/noticed the posting.

I am curious about this car too.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:47 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:22 pm
Posts: 429
T7...

WVC # 120...I believe was Pullman Mt. Baxter HW 10 Sect lounge observation


Dean Levin


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 244
DL,
This is very good information. I have seen pictures of this choo choo and it is very pretty.
Thanks,
T7


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:02 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Back in NE Ohio
PLATFORMCAR wrote:
T7...

WVC # 120...I believe was Pullman Mt. Baxter HW 10 Sect lounge observation


Dean Levin


No, Mt. Baxter is still owned by the Midwest Railway Preservation Society in Cleveland, as it has been owned by them and predecessor Midwest Railway Historical Foundation (the former equipment owning arm of Midwest Chapter, NRHS) since 1962, when it was acquired from the L&N(?) and renamed John S. Foster, for the former W&LE engineer and Midwest Chapter co-founder. It carried the Foster name and blue paint until the early 1980's, when it was refurbished and reverted back to it's historic Pullman name.

The car had not operated behind a train since the mid-'90's before the recent July 4th weekend, when it was part of the Kent Festival train rides on July 2nd running from the former A&GW/Erie station down the connection with the Wheeling, and then South for several miles to South of Howe Rd. Premium seats in the car were just about sold out for the entire day. According to Midwest members hosting the train that day, it took a concerted effort to get the car finished and able to run on the train. Two weeks before the trips, the car was still up on jacks.

If I can get it to work, here is a digi image of the car operating that day.


Attachments:
File comment: MRPS Pullman "Mt. Baxter", Kent Festival, Kent, OH, July 2, 2011
mtbaxter.jpg
mtbaxter.jpg [ 54.4 KiB | Viewed 2338 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:07 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Hendersonville, NC
According to MRPS' Facebook page on the "Mt. Baxter", it was built in 1924 as a Plan 3521 and rebuilt in 1937 as a Plan 3721-L, 10-Section Solarium Buffet Lounge.

Jim Tatum.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:22 pm
Posts: 429
to error is human....


d


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:02 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Back in NE Ohio
The "buffet" part of the description of the Mt. Baxter is a little misleading. The "kitchen" part of the car is more like a linen closet (for anyone thinking it might be like the buffet part of say, DC Chapter's Dover Harbor), really only good for light beverage service. A significant part of the car is taken up with very large Men's and Women's restroom/lounges. That said, apart from having been retrofitted with roller bearings, the car is very much like it was in the heavyweight era, still carrying it's steam heat equipment, axle generators and Spicer drives, which are no longer functional, and I'm told will have to be removed to meet current regulations. That is a real shame, it would be nice if a group of fully-functioning coaches were kept as close to as-built as possible. Again, I know, the realities of having to operate in the 21st Century...


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:16 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 244
OK...now back to the original question: What car is the open platform car on the Durbin & Greenbrier Valley RR??

Photos show that it sure is a fine looking old car. I am unfamiliar with it.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:31 am
Posts: 212
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Well, this topic has lingered for quite some time without a definitive answer and some incorrect information being previously posted. Hope I don't offend anyone but I am trying to play catch up as well as offer some more accurate information.

First let me offer my insite on this statement...

"It is evidently West Virginia Central #120 formerly White River Scenic Railway."

The problem with this statement is this... a photo of what is reportedly WRSR #1, formerly SP 110 Lost Angeles shows that the WVC car is not the same car, the first link of SP 110 as WRSR while the additional links are of the car while still in Espee ownership (note the sealed thermapaine windows, the altered vestibule end and the Espee light package on the observation end of the car)...
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3530589
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/business-car_photos/0110_1_sp-business-car-los-angeles-charles_lange.jpg
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/business-car_photos/0110_2_sp-business-car-los-angeles-charles_lange.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3566246

Comparing this shot with shots of the WVC 120 you can see that we are talking about two different cars...
http://mountainrailwv.com/wp-content/uploads//parlorCAR.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=189543
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lrmyers/8046198101

Was there more than one car acquired by the WRSR? I hope that we can yet figure this out.

On the West Virginia Central website they have a lot of incorrect information, saying the car was formerly on the WRSR (already addressed above) and was built for the Central Pacific (likely just assigned to the CP) and that the car was Instruction car 112. The true Instruction Car 112 (ex-2914) was a former Espee barber shop - lounge observation car that was one of several built by Pullman for the Pacific coast train (sorry, I don't remember its name), which, at one point was painted silver prior to the installation of air conditioning to help fight off the effects of the Sun. This car, SP 112, may have become SPMW 7077 in more recent years, painted in Daylight-paint. Below are a few links to both SP 112 and 7077 (I believe that the 7077 is now a part of the Union Pacific Historical Collection)...
http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?december12/12-04-12/SP112_Instruction_Car.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3387520
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1356074
http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=242515
http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=557701
http://www.shastarails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=5454

Also on the WVC website it says that the car they have saw use on the Broadway Dinner Train... can anyone confirm this???

So this is where we stand and I yet hope some answers will come from this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavyweight Observation Car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:42 am
Posts: 912
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Jerry--

Interesting info on the WVC #120. I was wondering if in stating that it was of "CP" heritage, that the WVC was partially correct, that the #120 was one of the 10 section lounge observations sold to SP by Pullman. I compared photos of the #120 with one of the ten cars from Lot #4442 built to Plan #2521C. Two of the Lot #4442 cars were sold to SP, the "San Bernardino" and "San Marcial", which became SP #8500 and #8501 respectively. The photo I located (via your website) was of the "San Juan", but the window arrangements of the "San Juan" and the #120 are not the same, so that eliminated the #120 being from Lot #4442.

No other Plan #2521 cars were sold to the SP, SSW, T&NO, or even the CRI&P either as "Leased to Pullman" or as Tourist Cars, so next I checked Plan #3521 cars.

I found a matching window arrangement on Mid-Continent's "Mt. Harvard", which was one of fifteen Plan #3521 cars built in Lot #4742. "Mt. Harvard" was modified from an open platform observation to a solarium observation (as Plan #3521L), but nine of the cars in Lot #4742 have no Plan changes (variants) listed, which would imply that the platforms were not enclosed. Among these nine, "Mt. Ranier" (mispelled, perhaps) was sold to CRI&P, "Mt. Desert" and "Mt. Hood" were both sold to NYC, and "Mt. Foraker" was sold to the Fort Dodge, Des Moines & Southern. The other five were sold to scrap dealers, although like the "Mt. Harvard", that does not necessarily mean that being cut up was their final fate--one of these could indeed be the WVC #120.

WVC #120: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=189543 (G Gerard photo)

PULL "Mt. Harvard" (before the platform was enclosed): http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/stlpas/harvardf.jpg (W.C. Whittaker photo)

NYC Business Cars:

The "Mt. Hood" was rebuilt as NYC business car #19 (3rd), which was sold in 1960 to Cornelius Vanderbilt "Sonny" Whitney as the "Wanderer".

The "Mt. Desert" was rebuilt as NYC business car #20 (3rd), which was sold to Buzz Norton as the "Hiram".

NYC #20: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-20-b.jpg

SP Business Cars:

Also, thanks for the information on SP #110 "Los Angeles" and #112 "Instruction".

As reported by MRLX1020 over on the "SP Business Cars" thread, SP #110 "Los Angeles" is now privately owned and stored at Gateway Rail Services in Madison, IL.

Didn't know previously where the SP #112 had ended up, other than a retirement date of 1975 (this was probably the MofW transfer date). Glad to see that it is now stored in Cheyenne.

"SP Business Cars" thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35667

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database at: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Mid-Continent Railway Museum's page on "Mt. Harvard" at: http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/stlpas/harvard.html

3. Terry Link's NYC business car roster at: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS2.htm

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Ted Brumberg


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