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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1983
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I would argue these engines have much more value in their current form, than as components of trench engine replicas. In their current form, these engines played a big part in the local culture and memories of many people.

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5419
Location: southeastern USA
R Cadd wrote:
As of this date, both the Byron locomotives are in the possession of a private party in CA and are being restored to their original 'trench' configuration, including new boilers, etc.


If the Byron boilers aren't complete junk, it's possible they could be the basis for replicating a small locomotive or two. If anybody knows the new owners, please see if they might offer them here.

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 674
It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. The owner can do what ever he wants with these locomotives. They are either toys or historic artifacts. If toys, they are to be played with. If historic artifacts they are to be preserved. Preserved does not mean change out 80% of the parts so you can play with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:28 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1315
John T wrote:
It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. The owner can do what ever he wants with these locomotives. .


Maybe what the owner wants is work in progress in which suggestions will be considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:22 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1243
Location: Youngstown, OH
Well here is the thing. We can wish all we want about what should be done with other people's property, but at the end of the day it is their property to do with as they please. Those Byron locomotives had been for sale, and the availability of the one in NY was even mentioned here on this forum a few years ago. If it was important to preserve one as a Byron Railroad locomotive, the best way to do that would have been to buy it when it was available.

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I can't grasp how, on a railroad preservation forum, there are actually people who'd want a very rare WW1 'trench' locomotive preserved as a homebuilt contraption instead of how it was originally built...

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2382
p51 wrote:
I can't grasp how, on a railroad preservation forum, there are actually people who'd want a very rare WW1 'trench' locomotive preserved as a homebuilt contraption instead of how it was originally built...



Lee - I would argue that WWI trench railroading history is not widely understood, especially outside of Europe. For a couple of years, these little trains were the lifeblood of trench warfare. There were so many built and so few remain. I would argue they are among the most historic of all steam locomotives, on par with The General or a Pershing 2-8-0. - Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 504
Location: Wall, NJ
Having seen the Byron locomotive up close and personal, it was indeed unique, for lack of a better word. I think you really need to look at the conversion to include the tender trucks and such to see how unusual the design was. And if I recall correctly, there was something odd about the boiler. Was it a tractor boiler? In this day and age, I’d be concerned as to how acceptable the overall conversion would be today. That said, the conversion to a 2-6-2 tender engine did buy the chassis, and its own history, time, keeping it away from the scrapper’s torch.

And, as has been pointed out, someone paid good money for this locomotive, they can do what they want with it. Its theirs.

The bottom line is that this is probably a good direction to go based on the quality of the work, changing times, and the history that is buried under the Byron conversion.

J.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:12 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1315
I went to Iowa to see the railroad and locomotives about 1964. I did get the impression that that Byron locomotives were indeed rather unusual in certain ways that almost bordered on not being credible. But overall, it seemed like he pulled it off in a convincing manner.

The trench locomotives were never complete locomotives, as I understood it. Mr. Hiatt bought only the undercarriages with frame, drivers, cylinders, etc. He used traction engine boilers, and freelanced the rest of the design. The boilers seem to sit somewhat unusually high on the frames. I do recall something rather overly simple about the tender trucks. I seem to recall seeing Fairmont motor car wheels used with the tender trucks, but I can't say for sure now.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 123
Yes looking at the picture on the semi, those tender wheels look like Fairmonts. If anyone has a contact for the new owner I would like to know if the tenders or tender parts are for sale?

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:04 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2489
p51 wrote:
I can't grasp how, on a railroad preservation forum, there are actually people who'd want a very rare WW1 'trench' locomotive preserved as a homebuilt contraption instead of how it was originally built...


These aren’t trench locomotives, they’re home made contraptions that utilized some trench locomotive components. How much is left to “preserve”? Looks more like a replica with the original running gear. Not saying that’s all bad, but there seems to be more missing than preserved at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:29 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:37 pm
Posts: 2
I've seen both engines up close and personal. The unfortunate truth is that nothing Byron did was salvageable. The quality of work was terrible and the boiler shells were beyond compromised by their modifications. One was a tractor boiler, the other was original. The only way these engines could run is with new boilers, and using only old running gear. The tenders were made of pure scrap, and the welds were something that would not pass 20ft inspection.

Personally I think the trench engines are awesome. I'm sure the new owner agrees if they are being returned to original condition 100 years after built.

Byron did history the greatest service preserving these chassis for restoration, and two of three left in the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:40 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:30 am
Posts: 44
Whitcomb wrote:

Personally I think the trench engines are awesome. I'm sure the new owner agrees if they are being returned to original condition 100 years after built.

Byron did history the greatest service preserving these chassis for restoration, and two of three left in the USA.

Totally agree.... well said!
Ray.


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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:52 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1983
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
The unfortunate truth is that nothing Byron did was salvageable.


That makes the decision more logical.

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 Post subject: Re: Byron Railroad 2' Gauge Steam
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:37 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:37 am
Posts: 1
Okay I’ve been seeing some topics regarding the two Byron locomotives and I’d like to get a few things straight.

I work as a machinist for the private individual that owns the locomotives. What was said above is true in regards to the condition of these locomotives as we got them.
Without a doubt they were the most hacked together things you’d ever seen. I’ll break it down a little bit.

“2968”
-Had a crude 3 foot extension welded to the frame to allow for the large cab
-had 3 male fittings WELDED together that came off the steam dome
-sand pipes welded to the crosshead guides
-trailing truck assembly was torch cut and welded together
-tender was 2 Standard gauge ties, with a big red round tank inside paper thin sheet metal on top of angle iron trucks with speeder wheels

“2967”
-Had a tractor boiler for starters
-tender was the same cobbled pile that the 2968 had
-front of the frame was cut and shortened
-ran without the trailing wheel assembly
-missing the entire 6 foot section of the original frame

I find it kind of pathetic people would rather see the engines in the “Byron appearance” vs their original trench engine configurations. Luckily, we are putting both engines back to original specs. Viva La trench engine!!


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