Thought many member of the forum, might enjoy a few photographs from last week of Atlantic Coast Line P5A # 1504..... located in the parking lot of the old Jacksonville Terminal ( now the convention center ) ... I believe # 1504 was placed back in 1960 in the courtyard of the ( then new ) Atlantic Coast Line building ( now CSX's headquarters ) in downtown Jacksonville... The locomotive sat at the headquarters till 1986 when it was donated to the City of Jacksonville and placed in a very non appealing parking lot location in what were the trackage leads to the station... now empty parking lots.....

An interesting history.....from what was a pristine retirement location at the headquarters... to a not too appealing behind the scenes parking lot location...My personal opinion ( which I assume is allowed ) .. is that this locomotive deserved a better and more appealing retirement location...

A beautiful engine, that still looks pretty good ( despite fading from the harsh Florida sun )....

Heard some discussion of the desire to relocate the current Amtrak station back to Jacksonville Terminal.... Would be nice to see the engine moved to a more prominent location at the terminal and Amtrak back at what once was quite a busy location.... ( I include a photograph of the front entrance of Jacksonville Terminal ) ....

Hope a few on the forum find it all interesting....


Dean Levin

a few more current photographs

a photograph of the front of Jacksonville Terminal.... the engine is located on the other side of the building... about 1/4 mile from what were the old bumper posts... out in the parking lots....


Dean Levin

Those were very attractive engines and hopefully this one has a brighter future. A really good cosmetic restoration and some shelter would be just what the Dr. ordered. If her condition would permit, operation restoration and someplace like the BM&R would be super. Ah, dream on.

Thanks for posting Dean. What a great old girl. I hope she is kept up and given the care she needs.

My NRHS chapter used to have a table at the RR collector's shows there, back in the 80s when I still lived in Florida. I have a photo somewhere of me sitting in the cab if this engine probably around 1986 or 87 I guess (the gate was open, I didn't hop the fence). I doubt she's been painted since that time. Shame nobody's looked after her since, and that climate is murder on something outside like that...

Stay tuned. There is movement afoot to cosmetically restore the locomotive.

My dad has video of this engine being slid on track panels through downtown during the relocation. I forget why the engine is incapable of rolling but I was told that it was welded stationary in a couple of places, though I could be wrong.

I'd like to see it run down to Miami...

I mentioned on this thread my dad has video of the engine being moved from the Seaboard/CSX building to the convention center. He just posted the video to Youtube. You can see the engine sliding on the greased panel tracks. There are some shots of torch cutting, though I wasn't clear on what was being cut aside from the sections of rail. The engine today could use some paint, though mechanically it still looks great. The paint wasn't faded so much back in 1986.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7dA47FGZp4

John, I talked to Bill Purdie about this engine once (while riding an excursion behind N&W 1218 out of Atlanta). Bill said there were just a couple of small steel blocks welded to the crosshead bars that prevented the crossheads from moving. He said if he had an angle grinder and about 10 minutes, he could have the engine ready to roll again. Bill had apparently done a pretty thorough examination of the locomotive at some point and he said it was in very good shape mechanically.

I did see (in the vid) the blocks mentioned, but what kept the the engine truck wheels fom turning? I have a feeling the Jacksonville weather has not been kind to this engine. I've seen drivers refuse to turn due to the crossheads being frozen in the guides but truck wheels not turning? That is alot of rust!

Cheers, Jason

I think anyone would agree that being close to the Atlantic ocean is a bad place to display a locomotive outdoors. Such a shame they couldn't display her inside somewhere.
Can anyone confirm whether or not Seaboard System was thinking of maybe getting her into steam for their stillborn steam program? I'd heard that several times back in the 80s...
I do recall looking at the running gear the one time I took a loook at this engine and I saw the wedges welded into place. I agree it looked like an easy task to free them up if you really wanted to do so. But I guess in the end, the greased track option was probably the easiest and fastest method to get the engine where it needed to go...

Lee,

It's been a long time since I talked to Mr. Purdie about it (I think that excursion was in 1989) but I'm pretty sure he said something to that effect. As I remember it, he said he thought there was a pretty good chance the 1504 was one of those mythical "overhauled just prior to being placed on display" locomotives. Mr. Purdie said that Tom Moore, later president of the Clinchfield, was put in charge of prepping the 1504 for display around 1960 and apparently the "cosmetic" restoration involved quite a bit of mechanical and boiler work. IIRC, Mr. Moore was to head up CSX's aborted excursion effort. IIRC, Mr. Moore first looked at ACL 1504 but eventually acquired C&O 2716, but shortly afterward he was either fired or had to resign due to some misconduct on his part.

I have a pretty good series of photos of the 1504 that I took in ~1981 prior to its move from the CSX headquarters building. The locomotive was not fenced in at the time, had the usual pile of trash in the firebox and cab and the tender tank was rusted through in several places. It looks like they must have done a decent cosmetic restoration on the engine when it was moved.

I have a warm spot for 1504 as I know it was running through my home town (a little place of ~100 people along the ACL main line in rural SC) long before I was born, and I know my dad undoubtedly saw it (and likely rode behind it) on more than one occasion.

Tom Moore was convicted and fired before the creation of CSX, I want to say in the late 1970s, or as late as 1980.

2716 was selected for the Clinchfield program. She was even towed to Irwin, TN, but the legal troubles occurred, and she came back to Louisville, before going to Birmingham.

David,

I guess I should have said the Seaboard (or maybe Family Lines by that time) excursion program. I think 1504 was at least considered before 2716 was selected.

Hugh