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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:49 pm
Posts: 16
Hi Les;

I wonder if replacement of windows with FRA glass, entered the picture (along with fire damage) when the windows were plated over. I know this was the reason some cabooses had their windows removed/re-plated towards the end of their career in order to spare extra expense in equipping all windows with the FRA glazing..
Also, it would not surprise me to find the side door/window was removed by the folks at Erie Western to make simple repairs as they were not the most professional railroaders. I had experience with them back in the 70s on Columbus and Greenville RY. and to be kind I will say there were "different'.

Good luck with the hunt for information.

Barry


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Thought I would post a photo I found on the internet of one of the IC Iowa Division cabooses that did not have the side door:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2048473

Photo was taken by Chuck Zeiler and hopefully he won't mind my posting it here. It shows IC #9905 still in service for the railroad.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:19 pm
Posts: 7
Here is a link to the IC 9991 on George Elwoods Fallen Flags site.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic9991akm.jpg

The picture was taken at the Milwaukee Road Fairthorn IL yard with a date of July 1980. Even if the date is incorrect, it was taken after the shutdown of the Erie Western on 6/24/79, with no modifications made by the ERES.

I attached a photo taken by Paul Lutz of the last run of the Chicago and Indiana on 12/30/79 showing the CINR 100. The paint is pretty faded and would not appear a repair was made in the last 6 months.
Attachment:
File comment: CINR 100
scan259.jpg
scan259.jpg [ 102.46 KiB | Viewed 3792 times ]


I looked through some 1979 issues of "The Short Line" and they did not show a history of CINR 100, just calling it "origin unknown".


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Ed Raye wrote:
Here is a link to the IC 9991 on George Elwoods Fallen Flags site.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic9991akm.jpg

The picture was taken at the Milwaukee Road Fairthorn IL yard with a date of July 1980. Even if the date is incorrect, it was taken after the shutdown of the Erie Western on 6/24/79, with no modifications made by the ERES.

I attached a photo taken by Paul Lutz of the last run of the Chicago and Indiana on 12/30/79 showing the CINR 100. The paint is pretty faded and would not appear a repair was made in the last 6 months.
Attachment:
scan259.jpg


I looked through some 1979 issues of "The Short Line" and they did not show a history of CINR 100, just calling it "origin unknown".


Ed -

Boy, you have sure answered a couple of questions! First of all, I had heard that the Erie Western had moved their equipment including the ALCO RS-3's to Faithorn Yard in Illinois after they stopped operating the old Erie. The fact that IC #9991 was there too, and in an unchanged condition (still with the side door) proves that the 9991 is NOT the ex-IC caboose at Hoosier Valley. BTW, I heard that the RS-3's were badly vandalized at Faithorn; I wonder how the 9991 eventually made out? The photo by Paul Lutz taken on the last day of 1979 is terrific because it is the only one I have ever seen of the caboose actually in service on the Chicago & Indiana as their CINR #100. If you know Paul, tell him I'd like a copy of that photo to display at HVRM.

Well, we don't have a firm answer yet, but maybe we're moving closer!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Ed Raye wrote:
Here is a link to the IC 9991 on George Elwoods Fallen Flags site.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic9991akm.jpg


Ed -

I checked George Elwood's Fallen Flags site today. He has a section on the Erie Western. Included are a number of photographs that Dennis Schmidt took back in October of 1978 in Huntington, Indiana. Included were the railroads diesel locomotives and some freight cars. What I found surprising is that there were no photos of cabooses. I know that Mr. Schmidt has taken a lot of caboose photos through the years. So, why no photos of an Erie Western caboose, or cabooses? I know that you can contact some of the photographers on George Elwood's site, but Dennis Schmidt is not listed. Sure would be nice to know why Mr. Schmidt didn't take any caboose photos back in 1978 when he visited the road. No cabooses there? Or maybe there was a caboose that was a burned out hulk and he didn't bother to take a photo.

Questions...questions.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Well, I kind of thought that we had pretty much come to the end of securing possible information on our caboose, when I got a note yesterday that has renewed my hopes. I was informed that side-door Illinois Central caboose #9991, that had run on the Erie Western (ERES), was actually privately owned and that when an eventual shutdown of the railroad appeared imminent, the owner reclaimed the 9991. Craig Burroughs of the ERES then moved an ex-IC Iowa Division caboose from his Louisiana Midland (LOAM) operation up to the ERES and it was this caboose that eventually became Chicago & Indiana #100, then worked for the Tippecanoe Railroad and finally ended up at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum. Now hopefully someone has a photo, or at least a record of the number, of this LOAM caboose!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Well, we've pretty much given up on finding the original number for our Illinois Central Iowa Division caboose. The museum is now well along in its restoration and eventually will be repainting it and lettering it for the IC. Which means we are going to have to give it an IC number. What we don't want to do, is give it a number for a IC caboose that is known to be in existence. Here are the Iowa Division cabooses that we know of:

9951 - On display in Matteson, Illinois (was also an ex-Waterloo Railroad caboose)
9956 - At Ponchatoula, MS at depot (per Dean Levin photo on RyPN 12/2007)
9966 - Jackson, TN as a local motel room
9967 - Nashua, IA apparently on display at depot (per Jim Sands photo dated 2002)
99xx - At depot museum in Clarksville, TN with R. J. Corman GP-35
99xx - Gretna, LA behind SP freight depot (incorrectly numbered as 9559)
99xx - The caboose at North Judson, IN (the subject of this thread)

First of all, we would like to know the numbers of the cabooses in Clarksville and Gretna listed above. We would also like to know if any other Iowa Division cabooses may be in existence, besides the ones listed. In other words, we don't want to letter our IC caboose as 9951, 9956, or any other number that we know about. Yes, we know that it is possible that after giving our caboose an IC number, a caboose with that number may show up later, but if that happens, then so be it. We will deal with it then.

Finally, in recapping, Iowa Division offset cupola cabooses were built without the center door and were numbered 9900-9917 and 9950-9967, a total of 36 cabooses out of the 350 of this type built by the railroad.

Thanks for any help.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
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Location: Union, IL
A few more are listed here including 9900, 9908 and 9961: http://www.icrr.net/iccaboose.htm

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Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Frank Hicks wrote:
A few more are listed here including 9900, 9908 and 9961: http://www.icrr.net/iccaboose.htm


Frank -

Thanks for pointing out this site. And the additional cabooses listed above. This list also gives us the correct number for the caboose in Gretna (9959 not 9559) which was apparently incorrectly numbered when repainted for display. Also, on the very end of the list showing cabooses with unidentified numbers is one of this series located at Holmesville, MS at a canoe rental company located on the Bogue Chitto River. This is all great info. Thanks again!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Les Beckman wrote:
Here is the above list, as amended, of ICRR Iowa Division cabooses that we know of:

9900 - Hampton, IA at Franklin County fairgrounds with depot (as Rock Island #17221)
9908 - Baker, LA on display at Heritage Museum & Cultural Center
9951 - On display in Matteson, Illinois (was also ex-Waterloo Railroad caboose #9951)
9956 - At Ponchatoula, MS at depot (per Dean Levin photo on RyPN 12/2007)
9959 - Gretna, LA behind SP freight depot (incorrectly numbered as 9559)
9961 - Humboldt, IA on Sumner Avenue (location not confirmed)
9966 - Jackson, TN as a motel room at Casey Jones Motel
9967 - Nashua, IA apparently on display at depot (per Jim Sands photo dated 2002)
99xx - At depot museum in Clarksville, TN with R. J. Corman GP-35
99xx - Near Holmesville, MS at canoe rental location on Bogue Chitto River (info?)
99xx - The caboose at North Judson, IN (the subject of this thread)

In recapping, Iowa Division offset cupola cabooses were built without the center door and were numbered 9900-9917 and 9950-9967; a total of 36 cabooses out of the 350 of this type built by the railroad.

Thanks for previous help and any additional forthcoming information.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Les Beckman wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
Here is the above list, as amended, of ICRR Iowa Division cabooses that we know of:

9900 - Hampton, IA at Franklin County fairgrounds with depot (as Rock Island #17221)
9908 - Baker, LA on display at Heritage Museum & Cultural Center
9951 - On display in Matteson, Illinois (was also ex-Waterloo Railroad caboose #9951)
9956 - At Ponchatoula, MS at depot (per Dean Levin photo on RyPN 12/2007)
9959 - Gretna, LA behind SP freight depot (incorrectly numbered as 9559)
9961 - Humboldt, IA on Sumner Avenue (location not confirmed)
9966 - Jackson, TN as a motel room at Casey Jones Motel
9967 - Nashua, IA apparently on display at depot (per Jim Sands photo dated 2002)
99xx - At depot museum in Clarksville, TN with R. J. Corman GP-35
99xx - Near Holmesville, MS at canoe rental location on Bogue Chitto River (info?)
99xx - The caboose at North Judson, IN (the subject of this thread)

In recapping, Iowa Division offset cupola cabooses were built without the center door and were numbered 9900-9917 and 9950-9967; a total of 36 cabooses out of the 350 of this type built by the railroad.

Thanks for previous help and any additional forthcoming information.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


Here is the best photo I have found on the internet of the caboose at the depot museum in Clarksville, Tennessee that is listed above as 99xx:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=750925

The website that Frank Hicks referenced above on IC cabooses, lists this caboose as having a side door but as you can see by the photo, this is obviously an Iowa Division caboose sans side door. But...no IC number. If you check that website on IC cabooses for the entry for the Clarksville caboose, it shows it as USAX #907. Did this caboose go to the U.S. Army at one time? And did the Army maybe just shorten its IC number by lopping off the first digit? Tempting to make that assumption, but I won't. Hopefully someone will check the caboose and find the old Illinois Central number for sure.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Well, some good and bad news! While checking the Internet for something else, I managed to find, I believe, the IC Iowa Division caboose mentioned above as being at a "canoe rental location near Holmesville, MS on the Bogue Chitto River". I found a Facebook page for an outfit named the "Bogue Chitto Choo Choo" that rents canoes and kayaks. Their address is 2017 Dogwood Trail, McComb, Mississippi and they are located just off of U.S. Highway 98. There are even a few photos of a caboose that they have on the property, but of the 3 photos, none show for sure whether this is a Iowa Division caboose, or even an Illinois Central caboose for that matter! One photo shows a couple on the platform. Another was taken from beneath a porch overhang or something with a big post blocking the middle section of the side. A third photo shows some folks on the roof, putting up a couple of flags! Grrrrrrr! Anyway, I need to confirm that this is indeed an IC Iowa Division caboose, and find out the cars number. McComb, Mississippi is where IC 4-8-2 #2542 and some other equipment is on display, and since photos of that 2542 and equipment show up from time to time on the internet, maybe someone might wander down and visit the canoe rental folks there at the interestingly named Bogue Chitto Choo Choo. As added incentive, the photo of the side of the caboose shows a passenger car behind it and I have NO idea what the story is on that car. And Choo Choo? Maybe something else of railroad interest, might also be on the property! Anyone for a road trip?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:44 pm
Posts: 9
Les,

Fortunately, Google has done some of the hard work for you here, via Google Street View. Here's your caboose in Mississippi:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2017+Dog ... 8,,0,-1.87

I am not an expert on IC cabooses, so I will refrain from trying to identify it, but hopefully this is helpful to you.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5291
Dan -

Terrific! Thanks very much for finding this. Yes, Illinois Central and yes, an Iowa Division caboose. It appears to have been given a newer coat of red paint, so covering up the road number. Might be viewable through the paint, or the number on the underframe or on the inside of the car over the door. Maybe a photo at the owners location of the caboose as it arrived. This certainly helps, but still need that car number!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Caboose identification...a long shot!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: Northern Illinois
Gee, Les, they're a business, no? Maybe a call to their business phone can get the girl at the counter to read the number stenciled over her head, or at least put you in touch with the owner.

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