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 Post subject: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:51 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:32 am
Posts: 175
Location: CT
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 09&nseq=43


Looks nice. Who's going to be operating it? A new startup in New Freedom?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8882
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
It's been kicking around here since at least 2010:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29379

First runs, for private guests only, reportedly slated for June 1; public runs supposedly slated beginning mid-June. Track contractors were still busy installing new ties, laying more ballast, etc. between New Freedom and Hanover Junction as the loco was being delivered (I drove north and saw them in action).

www,steamintohistory.com

https://www.facebook.com/steamintohistory

In other news, the new operation has leased Stewartstown RR 44-tonner #10 for occasional operation.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I was on am Amtrak train with railroad artist Craig Thorpe recently and he had a 8X10 photo of a really nice painting he'd done for this operation, of this locomotive at the Hanover Junction depot during the Civil War, with Union soldiers milling around. It's a very well-done painting and he assumed they'd be eventually selling prints. Keep an eye out for this once it gets out there!

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:17 pm
Posts: 519
Location: Scranton, PA
Public rides slated to start Sunday June 2nd:

https://www.dynamicticketsolutions.com/ ... lYear=2013

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:14 am
Posts: 43
Location: Baltimore, MD
With all the money spent on this beautiful engine, I wonder why they didn't bother to letter it accurately. From the photo I saw, the tender reads "N.C.R.R.", a company name that never existed. For its life, the railroad was officially the Northern Central Railway. Period photos show such variations as "N.C.R.", "N.C.R.W." and "N.C.Ry." on the tenders. Anyway, they seem to be selling tickets for runs starting June 15, so we've already signed up.

Herb Harwood


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Don't know whether to put this in "Power of Video Production," or "Examples of Rail and Trail Corridors," but perhaps here is best--some videos of how "Steam Into History" came to be, and the inaugural runs from today, June 1, 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN790M-qRZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kaoTGsP8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWb4FVCxv30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJMb1vStq4M

Interview with the video producer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkZMrT_Vrbw

First run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... O-8iYEXJQg

From Steam Into History's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/steamintohistory

Also from the Facebook page--oh, I wonder if the fellows at Strasburg aren't jealous, and would like some power that looked like this on their line. . .

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Congratulations on 10 years of work:

https://www.facebook.com/steamintohistory


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:15 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 182
J3a-614 wrote:


This operation seems pretty interesting, but I'm concerned about their safety practices already. Did anybody else about shit a brick when watching this video? At about 1:45, the switchman tries to couple two cars, and the pins don't drop. He has the engineer pull forward four feet or so, then walks in between the two cars to open a knuckle on the other side! Then he goes back across and opens the other knuckle!

It seems pointless and dangerous. I hope somebody calls him out on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:47 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:14 am
Posts: 43
Location: Baltimore, MD
Another concern is how this equipment will be stored between runs. At the moment, there's absolutely nothing resembling a shed, closed or open, at their New Freedom base. We saw the first public trip June 2, which seemed well-attended, and one of the volunteers mentioned that there were plans to build something, but the money ran out before anything could be started. In the meantime -- however long "meantime" means -- we were told that they will have a full-time security guard. All this was just picked-up talk, so I don't know the real story. Anyway, as can be seen from the videos, the engine looks gorgeous right now. But after some weather exposure and who knows what else.....??

Herb Harwood


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Zak Lybrand wrote:
J3a-614 wrote:


This operation seems pretty interesting, but I'm concerned about their safety practices already. Did anybody else about shit a brick when watching this video? At about 1:45, the switchman tries to couple two cars, and the pins don't drop. He has the engineer pull forward four feet or so, then walks in between the two cars to open a knuckle on the other side! Then he goes back across and opens the other knuckle!

It seems pointless and dangerous. I hope somebody calls him out on that.


If you cannot express yourself in this forum without using four letter words, then I recommend you not post.

I haven't seen the video, but if the used proper three point protection, isn't movement between cars allowed?

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
I can't say whether three step protection was used, but as long as clear communication between crew members is established that isn't the end of the world. As a formalized work procedure it's fairly new, although crews have informally worked that way forever (adapted, of course, depending on motive power technology).

Is this operation within an FRA jurisdiction, which would force three step as a formalized procedure? I would insist on more distance between the cars, and our operation requires three step, but until recently what is seen here was very typical of hundreds of thousands of couplings every day across North America.

However in the video the brakeman gave clear hand signals to the hogger, obviously waited until he saw an acknowledgement from the hogger, and was very alert to the situation around him. He passed between the couplers very quickly, and while opening the knuckles stayed in as safe a position as possible where he could dive to safety if required.

He would be between the cars far longer, and in a far worse position, while connecting the brake hoses. This is unavoidable.

Before coupling, he verbally warned people nearby so they wouldn't be at risk.

To me, this man was working in a careful manner and doing his best to stay out of danger. Maybe not perfect, but not bad enough to warrant swearing. What gives me the willies in the video is all the trail users swarming around, and that's something that could only be limited with a fence. Since the railroad is just opening and track work is still ongoing, a fence may very well be planned.

Incidentally, he has the hogger back up, not pull forward, if you watch the signalling.

Zak, I'll ask... exactly what would you do differently, considering automatic couplers don't always couple automatically, and that there is no choice but to go between cars while coupling air hoses?

Obviously, you have a secret method, and I, for one, would love to know it so I can be safer during switching operations. Even more importantly, I can pass the secret on to my students to keep them safe.

Steve Hunter


Last edited by sbhunterca on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:43 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1106
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I would say that any FRA inspector watching that would be sorely tempted to cite the railroad and the trainman for 1) violating separation distance before going between cars, and 2) failure to formally establish three-step protection before going between cars. Three-step doesn't have to be over the radio, it can be verbal when in-person, but it can't be by hand signals (unless the rule has been changed recently). Looks like they need some more training of the crews.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8882
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Are we even 100% sure that this operation is actually covered by the FRA?

It was my impression--by rumors, possibly false or misleading--that somewhere in the Stewartstown-era operation of the former PRR line (owned by York County, as combined trail/"railbanking"), some measure was taken up near the road's active interchange with the "rest of the RR system"--the removal of a rail or two, or the placement of a barricade or mound of gravel--to "disconnect" it from the "general system."

Mind you, like a great many here, I'm old enough to remember watching not-100%-safe-but-common-sensical operating practices like that described/debated as routine in Penn Central and Conrail days. Some day, we should start up a thread of "unbelievable" things we've seen professional railroaders do--adjust coupler positions with a hard kick with the flats of their boots, spot cars with a "flying switch," riding footboards or ladder rungs, stepping off a caboose or loco while it's still moving slightly........


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 560
Location: Scottsboro, AL
PaulWWoodring wrote:
I would say that any FRA inspector watching that would be sorely tempted to cite the railroad and the trainman for 1) violating separation distance before going between cars, and 2) failure to formally establish three-step protection before going between cars. Three-step doesn't have to be over the radio, it can be verbal when in-person, but it can't be by hand signals (unless the rule has been changed recently). Looks like they need some more training of the crews.


I am unaware of any FRA regulation specifying separation distance or "three step" for operating employees. Different carriers have different rules in regard to these items.

Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 653
Does the line cross a public road?

If so, it's under FRA.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Central 4-4-0
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:32 pm
Posts: 44
If the rules of the railroad do not prohibit informal hand signals as a means of communication or specify a separation distance between equipment then there is no FRA violation in this scenario so long as the employee is a crew member assigned to operate the train he is working on. The term "three-step" does not acctually show up anywhere in 49 CFR Parts 200-299 when you run a search on ecfr.gov.

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