Newriver400,

do you know who the current legal owner of these cars are, and what their options/intentions might be? I would hate to see them scrapped, but they will take a serious well funded effort to restore.

Really? You would defend the work that was supposedly done on those cars? I see some cutting and some plywood work...but what else? I do not see any paint stripping or welding repairs or...anything actually. And I understand the point about "current status"...but there does not appear to be anything constructive that was ever done to them.

OK...a few pigtail sockets were spliced into the electrical system...the wood sash windows were removed and replaced with plywood that had storm windows screwed into them...and there might be some bondo along the side sills...and a few areas of rust look like they were torched out, anything else? Stenciled car numbers? Please be specific.

I also despise the old "the newspapers were just picking on poor old (Tony)" routine. If he was arrested...then he was arrested. They typically only arrest people for a legitimate reason.

T7

Since you are apparently in the "know" then show us the photos of before and after.

Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that hundreds of thousands of dollars don't go that far anymore.

I could post a bunch of photos that would prove my point...but it would be better if you just take my word for it.

Just go take a walk around and look at the substance and structure of the cars. You see a lot of original surfaces and rust. You don't have to have be an engineer or forensic scientist to see what has and hasn't been done to the cars. The vandals have actually been mild in their actions this time...there are still a lot of brass hardware on the cars and nobody has set fire to them yet. Mostly broken glass and spray paint.

Maybe ST was paid to "disassemble" the cars...which is always a mistake...but it happens. But otherwise there is little obvious "new" work on the cars. For some reason it looks like the window sashes were pulled from the cars and replaced with sheets of plywood that had aluminum storm windows cut into them. As I mentioned in the earlier post...I think some pig-tail sockets were spliced into the electrical system on the Seneca Valley. I see a few rectangles of steel cut from the side sheets...ST could explain better what was done. It is a public forum?

T7

I don't think has been linked here yet, but here are some pictures from the interior, including the other cars nearby it.

http://www.abandonedfl.com/?p=2342

These are from 2011.

My inquiry wasn't directed to you. if Newriver400 is in the know, that the hundreds of thousands of dollars of work charged for the car was "justified" then let's see the photos.

The RPO never had anything to do with a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show. I believe the RPO is ex-Southern Ry. Richard Winer bought several cars from Royal American Shows around the time we were buying the ex-L&N Kentucky Club and others from RAS for the Florida Gulf Coast RR Museum (now Florida RR Museum). I'm not sure if Winer got the RPO from RAS or elsewhere but he did have it at RAS in Tampa for a while where he was working on it (but NOT restoring it).

Winer had no interest in real restoration, just flashy carnival style crap that he thought would attract the public to stores he could lease out inside the cars. Winer's project later failed and Campos emerged to buy the Winer cars for the D W Bush Museum foundation.

-Jim Herron

Where to begin ?

New River 400 ( thanks for using a real name ) ...anyway seems you have become the unofficial spokesman for the contractor who apparently did such an admirable job on the cars ( per your opinion ) ... and since you are using the premise that the cars were vandalized and been the subject of neglect since the contractor was paid to perform his high quality work, perhaps as the unofficial spokesman for the contractor, you might be willing to share at a minimum the scope of work in which the contractor was paid. It would be helpful if you could share the scope and cost, but at a minimum before you claim anyone made comments that "sniffed of indignation" here is your opportunity to clear the record and explain what work was performed using State of Florida money and how much the contractor was paid. Then, the evaluation can be made if vandals removed new wiring, new air conditioning units, new doors, new window frames, new paint, removed structural changes and the like..... Finally in regards to the contractor, when you say "he had good records to back his invoices for payment", as the recipient of the large sums of grant money, was it not Mr. Campo who approved the contractors bills for payment ? Certainly it would seem as the recipient of the grant money, that Mr. Campo, ( WHO WAS ARRESTED ) paid the contractor.

Secondly, you seem to be on the side of defending Mr. Campo, who in your eyes only "mishandled" ( I call it more like stealing ) .... the money which he in many cases misrepresented the entitlement to ( such as $250,000.00 for US #1 ) ... as the way I read the grants, the grants were for the railroad cars, not per say for the displays at the Hollywood Station or his personal travel, etc.. . Once again can you clarify "small portion" How much is a small portion of over $1,000.000.00 ?

Finally, and or course, lets discredit multiple news reports and news sources of the criminal activity associated with these cars and the Hollywood Railroad Museum and claim conspiracy due to the "Bush" name... Of course, in your opinion, these were all a cooked up scheme to discredit the wonderful efforts of the contractor and grant recipient. Nice to hear you hang your hat solely on the vandalism and neglect since it was found that a crime took place.

Oh... and I guess since you have befriended the contractor personally, and are directly responsible in hiring the contractor for work at a major operational museum in Tennessee, I suspect its easy for you to forget the past... Just because someone wasn't arrested, doesn't per say mean that they didn't "take advantage" of a situation, where public money funded a restoration. Ultimately it was he, who assisted in draining the funds and not performing the work... In my eyes, lining your pockets with state funds, and seeing the results, I would expect you ( on behalf of your friend ) can share what he did to merit the massive amounts of money he was paid over a two year period.....

Funny thing is... it all reminds me ... of a story of a certain business car ..where someone came up with a scheme... took money from someone else, took the money and took the car all apart, and abandoned the project and abandoned the car, wasting tons of money and in the end ruining the car. Amazing parallels.... I need to look and remember the name of that car ....

Thank you in advance New River 400.


Dean Levin

Guess it's time for me to weigh in.
First of all, this place is for preservation and not for flaming.
Start, I looked up "Tony Campos Bush" and found that he is a district committeeman in Miami Dade County for the Republican Party and an officer of a federal employees union. Therefore he is very much contributing in an area for which he may be well suited.
I personally do not consider Mr. Campos as having contributed much to railway preservation as described in the above posts, certainly set back restoration of the Ferdinand Magellan in which we at the IRM Pullman Library have an interest.
With regard to all the cars sitting an a siding I have no knowledge.
With regard to the Gold Coast Railway Museum recent posts have indicated that they have worked very well with the local community and the former blimp facility to make an enjoyable, historic presence in the area.
In contrast, the former Hollywood Railroad Station Museum might have had the Hollywood FL sign post to it removed after a 2008 complaint that there was nothing open there anymore. Further, the IRS has revoked their tax status because of failure to file a form 990 several years ago, their last time reporting income was in 2002. Sadly, circumstances must have necessitated the closing. It is a beautiful station on the AMTRAK line. For that I grieve.
With regard to the Ferdinand Magellan, it appears contrary to former assertions that it will not be reclaimed for use other than in a museum; therefore it would be appropriate to say that we do have some plans for reconstruction. I am again sad that these were not available for what could have been an outstanding model, and for current restorations (unless we are now asked). The material is still available under Bombardier license at the standard fees to support the Pullman Library. I am sorry and apologize for so much water under the dam, but we are in effect always available to help the historical restoration and modelling communities, previous innuendo swept aside.
I hope the above to be correct and welcome any additions or corrections.
In this case very sincerely and apologetic by circumstance,
Ted Anderson, curator, IRM Pullman Library

Forgive me if I'm dense, but I do not understand this. Please elaborate.

Ted Anderson wrote:
With regard to the Ferdinand Magellan, it appears contrary to former assertions that it will not be reclaimed for use other than in a museum; therefore it would be appropriate to say that we do have some plans for reconstruction.


Reply: Forgive me if I'm dense, but I do not understand this. Please elaborate.


Sorry. I had to look at it too, poor grammar. We have the drawings (plans) for the original four cars in the Explorer series including the Ferdinand Magellan. In addition, there was a second rebuild lot number assigned to the rebuild for presidential service and we have those also. The innuendo referred to among others was to have the drawings transferred to the U S National Archives. A check with the archivist there (phone call, no written verification) was that they would accept them if offered but they were not obligating us. The IRM Board felt there was something fishy in the whole deal and we deferred taking any action which had been based on an outside individuals initiative and the drawings were never transferred, in keeping with the requirement to us to keep all materials intact. We reserve the right to make copies under license and, of course, the Gold Coast Railroad Museum would greatly benefit from the information if they would be kind enough to contact us. End of story but quite a story!
Ted Anderson

National Archives could order copies if they see fit. Works for everybody.

I wonder if the plans show the hidden compartment in which Buck Price used to hide his flask.....

dave

To bring back this thread.

The GCRM Board of Directors decided this week that GCRM is not interested in these cars, If anyone else is interested in these cars, please contact (PM) me and I will help you however I can.

The siding where they're sitting - the owner of the business does not want them there. Florida East Coast does not want them there either.

With respect to the previous two posts:
1) I am of the opinion to make your donations to GCRM. They seem to have their heads on straight and are an asset in the local community if you are following their activities.
2) Avoid any scams. I heard recently from someone present at a national RR meeting that fund raising might be going on under another guise. The techniques are very clever and there is always the possibility of merit in any activity of this sort until proved otherwise.
3) To my knowledge the National Archives do not have original material that we have but possibly have copies. What we have are many original ink drawings on linen for the Ferdinand Magellan original order and drawings including 8 x 10 builders negatives for a later reinforced rebuild. I have no idea what the previous poster is suggesting about contacting the National Archives and it might be useful to respectfully request a clarification for a source.
4) At the IRM Pullman Library we work with requests always attempting to reach the higher standards of performance in our volunteer efforts but quite frankly, it is a strenuous task to meet the expectations of others in the time we have available. Contacting us at the IRM Pullman Library email, found on the IRM website, is highly recommended. In addition, we respect the very wide ranging interests of those who are posting here and hope that some of this information is useful.
Have a great day enjoying this aspect of railroad history!
Ted Anderson

Did they elaborate on why they're not interated?

Do they feel they're not historically significant to the presidential train? Are they in such bad shape they restoration would be cost prohibitive? Some other reason I've not considered?

Not flaming, just curious as they'd seem to be a great addition to the exhibit.