David -

I didn't want to "hijack" the thread on ACL 1504, so thought I'd submit a couple of photos, and some comments here.

The first photo (if I managed to get them in the correct order) is the Coronet Phosphate number 6 that is at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum, a photo of which you posted on the aforementioned ACL 1504 thread. It shows the paint I managed to get on the smokebox last fall before cold weather stopped the effort. You're right; more needs to be done. Hopefully I can eventually get the engine in presentable enough shape that others might want to help in the future. What are the chances of that? Realistically? Not to great I'm afraid.

The second photo shows another privately owned piece of equipment at HVRM. Unlike Porter #6, I am part owner on this one. My partner and I purchased it some years ago and, as part of my lease, I have to keep it in a good cosmetic appearance. This photo was also taken last fall, just before winter shut my efforts down until this spring. I was going to entitle this thread in the subject line "the curse of private ownership". Perhaps I should have done so. In my case, my partner and I purchased, and moved at our expense and using our own efforts, this 1910 Pullman built coach from Michigan to the museum in order to keep it from being scrapped. I struggle to keep up the appearance and do almost all of the work myself. I refrain from asking for help, because museum projects come first, and that is the way it should be. I am also a museum member, so most of the time I am at the museum, I work on museum projects, and not on this car, or number 6 for that matter.

Owning a piece of railroad equipment is time consuming and a financial drain, unless one if financially well off which I, unfortunately, am not. Still, ownership might still make more sense than the various alternatives.

More than enough said.

Les

Oh my goodness can I feel your pain Les, and that Pullman looks great..... I have been essentially on my own with 57 and the caboose and the remains of DSP&P 3 for years now...and no they weren't bought because I outbid anyone no one wanted them and they were destined for self demolition or planned demolition.
I have some help now on occasion and some generous donors very occasionally, but I wouldn't miss it for anything....keep up the good work, if I lived closer I would help you and vice versa i'm sure.
We are fortunate to have found our covered home but the rent has doubled from January and it has to be split three ways.

Mike Pannell
Cheyenne

Les,

First of all, nice photos. My point is that we all need to be careful when we make demands/inquiries regarding the cosmetic condition of equipment at other museums. Much to our detriment, we all seem to have a never ending backlog of projects and equipment that could use attention.

Glad to see the tank engine is getting some care. A little paint goes a long way. The coach looks nice by the way.

Les,

That coach looks very nice. And some unusual details to it-- the high window Dutch doors and the evidently plated-over arch windows. Can you tell us some more about it, please? Original road, subsequent owners, how the save was accomplished?

Thanks,

Howard P.

You should go save this little lady's sister, the No.6 lol Looks like she needs your help as well.

Howard -

I could (and have in the past) almost written a short novel about the car, but I will try to be brief. Built as part of the first order of passenger equipment for the Western Pacific as their number 302. Then:

D&RG #899
D&RGW #930
AC&HB #407
MN #407
Boyne City Railroad #407
KLS&C #950 (should have been 930, but the KLS&C "made a numbering mistake")

Found in Paw Paw, Michigan sitting on cribbing with the trucks in the weeds. HVRM expressed no interest. A year later, still in same location, but interior now vandalized, the owner advised that the City of Paw Paw intended to extend a street through the vacant land where she sat and would be cut up if not sold. We purchased her at a "bargain price" and moved her via truck to HVRM.

Upper windows plated over by D&RGW, but are not arch windows, but rectangular.

Les

That's a beautiful steam era coach, Les. Great work on what you have done.

I'm sure there are tourist roads now that would take it off your hands, but I'm not sure they would be as kind to it as you have. Seems most roads buying cars now are quick to gut them and update them for their needs, over their history.

There are of course, many exceptions to this, but the ones preserving the historical integrity of their cars, already have their hands full.

If I hit the lotto, I'll drop you a line.

Les--

Nice paint!



Les and Howard--

What's really interesting is that at least one other 84 seat coach from this order survives! (Although not in its original configuration.)

I don't know the original WP number, but it became D&RG #895 in 1924, then D&RGW #926. It was rebuilt in 1929 as Rio Grandé business car #101. It served in this capacity until it was retired in 1964. It was later sold to Golden West Rail Tours, retaining #101. It was later purchased by Thomas Pearson and Craig Rasmussen, who operated the car as #101 "The Prospector" out of Los Angeles, with Amtrak registration #800013. It was sold to Curtis Andrews in 1983 and moved to Othello, WA (on the old Milwaukee Road). It received a series of mechanical upgrades, and Mr. Andrews continued to have the #101 (with the name "Abraham Lincoln") available for charter service on Amtrak trains well into the 1990's. However, the #101 does not currently meet Amtrak's "PC2" mechanical requirements. It is NRHP listed.

Here's the website for the #101 "Abraham Lincoln": http://www.pullman-car.com/

Going back to the original issue, that of keeping equipment looking decent, I must ask, Les, if your lease stipulates that you keep your coach painted, why doesn't the lease for Coronet No. 6 have the same requirement? And if it does, and the owner doesn't keep it painted, what are the consequences?

No. 6 is a cute little lokie and looks like it would be just about right for a relatively short museum run. What's the plan for it? It appears to be a good candidate for a restoration that wouldn't break the bank.

Les, you have done and are doing a terrific job on the coach, especially working by yourself! It looks really good!
I have seen so many people "save" an engine or rail car, pay to move it and then do absolutely nothing to it while stating that they are going to do a "perfect" restoration on it someday. So much for saving them.
You're putting muscle, sweat and money into your coach, and what you can into an engine owned by an absentee owner. You're to be commended for it!
Thank you!

Alan W.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Les

Ranier Rails -

We purchased the 899 (which I will eventually paint onto the car) from the short line company that took over from the KLS&C when that line went out of business. They had at least one other sister coach on the roster. When these cars were on the D&RGW, most of them had air conditioning applied and were given sealed windows. A few of the cars were never so upgraded and remained open window coaches and were strictly used as overflow cars by the Rio Grande when needed on trains. It was these remaining open window coaches that were eventually sold to the Algoma Central. The sister coach I mentioned above, was actually sold to a restaurant in a place called Alamo, Michigan, which is just outside of Kalamazoo. It has had two entrances cut in one side and is used as a table car. From the parking lot, the car looks just as it did when on the KLS&C. It was when that car was moved to Alamo that the company decided to remove our car from the rails and put it up on cribbing to "get it out of the way" since the cranes were on site. I also think that one other of these cars exists (or did exist) on a tourist railroad in the southeast. I have that info in my records somewhere and could probably find it again if necessary.

Thanks for the info on 895/926/101.

Les

Thanks for bringing this coach up... I have wondered about its history for a while. Will be getting your shot and another one in KLSC maroon and red listed correctly within the next week, when I hope to have a new Update finished for the Passenger Car Photo Index.

Because of the maroon and red KLSC paint I actually thought it might be GM&O 3069 because this coach was very similar to the one you have. Acquired by the Alton, it was nearly identical (within a few inches) of being like this car so the paint threw me off. At least this historically significant coach is still with us and I hope that it will be possible to maintain it in an appropriate fashion!!!

What's the interior look like?

David -

Unrestored.


Les