It is currently Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Posts: 128
I just got a call this evening from a former employee that he had gotten news that the switcher and a coal hopper from the Notre Dame Railroad in South Bend, IN were offered to the NNYCRRM in Elkhart but were the museum tuned them down. Has anyone else heard anything about this? If they are still available and any of the museums in Indiana, Michigan or Illinois are interested they may be available if they haven't been scrapped. It has been over 7 years since I last saw them but they had been very well kept up to that time. I can't remember the make but the locomotive looked like a 44 ton.

Mark A. Frazier
M&M Consulting


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8878
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
http://www.monon.monon.org/rr/ndwrr.html

Photos from the early 2000s indicate a cut-cab Porter center-cab.

Reports indicate the railroad was torn up almost exactly a year ago, so trucks will have to be involved.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:22 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
The Notre Dame line was used to deliver coal to the plant, as you may not have known in earlier times passenger trains loaded with Football fans ran in the line to deliver fans and the nearby streetcars and South Shore had Football specials, I believe South Shore still works specials like that.

Thru time and railroad abandonments the squeeze was on the line to get coal there via rail, the north line abandonement thru Eau Claire was the biggest toll.

A derailment on the line caused Notre Dame to shift to a trucking design to get coal in.
Bob Harris and his Chicago Lake Shore and South Bend company to return rail service and even use electric power was met with opposition and huge news all over South Bend like it was something terrible. His plan was terrific. Duh went everybody else.

The rails have been removed except at the plant proper, the engine and cars sitting.
There are no rails to move them out, they would have to be trucked.

Norfolk Southern has retained the right of way the track was on, if an entrenapeur comes along to restore the line again it -might- be possible.

Aside from this and the falling out of the return of rail service, some group in South Bend expressed the possibility of streetcars returning to South Bend, curious episode to this.

The offering of the engine and cars is a sad fact that Notre Dame may not be returning to rail service.

The coaling procedure was coal cars are placed over the dump area and the coal dumped from the cars, now front end loaders heave the coal in from piles of coal.
There never used to be piles and piles of coal before.

I can just about understand the museum refusing the equipment, the potential is still there for their use actually, but Notre Dame just doesnt seem interested. Big DUH.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:48 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
PennCentral4321 wrote:
I just got a call this evening from a former employee that he had gotten news that the switcher and a coal hopper from the Notre Dame Railroad in South Bend, IN were offered to the NNYCRRM in Elkhart but were the museum tuned them down. Has anyone else heard anything about this? If they are still available and any of the museums in Indiana, Michigan or Illinois are interested they may be available if they haven't been scrapped. It has been over 7 years since I last saw them but they had been very well kept up to that time. I can't remember the make but the locomotive looked like a 44 ton.

Mark A. Frazier
M&M Consulting


Mark -

The plan as I understand it, is to go over and verify the condition of the Porter. If still in good condition, we will make the arrangements to move the donated locomotive to North Judson.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
The Porter diesel from the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, arrived at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum today. As with many things in life, the move did not go as easily as hoped. I have included a few photos from the day. First of all, the locomotive was loaded without any major incidents at the University campus on Monday, November 18th. These photos are after its arrival in North Judson today (11/19). If I have the photos in the correct order, the first one shows ND&W 5332 on the trailer, sitting just short of the museum and the C&O/CSX/Chesapeake & Indiana crossing which, unfortunately, has a nice "hump" in it. The second photo, shows the low boy trailer "stuck" on the crossing. The museum, and the trucking crew, spent the day working to get the trailer across the crossing. I had to leave at 4:00 p.m. and the last photo, which was taken from Grasselli Tower later in the afternoon, shows the trailer still hung up. I did talk to one of our members after I arrived home, and he tells me that the trailer finally made it across the C&O/CSX/C&I tracks and onto museum property where, with the members dog tired, it was decided to try to do the actual unloading of the unit at 8:00 tomorrow (11/20/13) morning.

The Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum wants to thank Notre Dame for their most generous donation of this very historic unit.

Les


Attachments:
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 001.JPG
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 001.JPG [ 217.08 KiB | Viewed 6954 times ]
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 002.JPG
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 002.JPG [ 281.57 KiB | Viewed 6954 times ]
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 004.JPG
ND&W #5332 arrives at HVRM 11-19-13 004.JPG [ 259.12 KiB | Viewed 6954 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 40
Location: Milner, KY
Les,

It shows the Top Shelf management style at HVRM to have the resources, whatever they may be, to move a locomotive on such short notice. You all seem to be doing something right.

James

_________________
The Bluegrass Railroad Museum, Versailles, KY
http://www.bluegrassrailroad.com
http://www.facebook.com/BluegrassRailroad


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:05 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 9
Thanks to all our volunteers that helped get this done,passing the tower
on the way to the barn.
Cory


Attachments:
1415764_725943877433354_806565733_n.jpg
1415764_725943877433354_806565733_n.jpg [ 11.1 KiB | Viewed 6466 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
Some info on the Porter:

Serial/Number 7391

Built 1942 for the U. S. Army as number 7032, then Notre Dame & Western #1, finally ND&W # 5332.

(Some reports say that the locomotive served the U. S. Navy rather than the Army so any corrections to the above information would be welcome.)

Note the change in road number when working for the University. Reportedly the change was to honor a New York Central 4-6-4. Why this was done is unknown, but the unit certainly carried 5332 for most of its long career at Notre Dame.

The unit has some interesting features including marker lights at all four top corners of the cab, a steam locomotive bell hanging off of one end, and a steam locomotive whistle, which obviously was run off of the air line. The University furnished all of these items separately to HVRM, along with its builders plates, and everything will eventually be put back on the locomotive. The whistle is supposedly from a B&O steamer, but not otherwise identified. Better luck with the bell, which was reportedly from an Illinois Central engine. The bell carries the number 1115, which would make it from an ICRR 4-6-2. Not sure when the 1115 was retired, but if known, it might give us an idea as to when the bell and its hanger were put on the Porter. There is also a bell on the top of one of the hoods, which is probably the bell furnished with the locomotive when originally built.

As Cory explained, the unit is now in the museums Shop building, where it will be worked on and eventually repainted. Much paperwork and some photos of the unit were also furnished by the University. The plan is to get the locomotive back into working condition and hopefully blue-carded so she can be used on occasion on the museums passenger trains.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 681
Congrats to your organizations ability to pull this off successfully in what appears to be "short order".

Les, years ago when I was an active welder the company I worked for had an incline going into the rear of the weld shop {former B-17 hanger added onto the brick}. Most of the time trucks did not use this entrance unless the assembled machines going out were big enough to warrant it. In a very similar fashion a low boy once loaded up with a sea fairing crane couldn't get out of the building. The lowboy trailer was caught in a similar situation as your pictures. By the end of first shift the engineers and company brass were looking at cutting a hole through the roof to access a large crane and a host of other foolish ideas to get the load outside. The second shift weld shop foreman was a pretty cool head, unlike much of the brass and engineers that day. There are times when an experienced shop guy can teach the more educated how to get things done. He had the truck back up, threw some blocking under the wheels of the lowboy or tractor which gave it the inch or two to clear the "high" spot causing the trailer to bottom out. The whole thing took about 10 minutes and Doug {the foreman} just gave them all a strange look and walked away. Sometimes you witness funny things in life. Watching all the brass and engineers who are very sharp guys in their own right, not be able to figure out a simple problem was hilarious to us in the shop. Had seen similar things, different form with semi trailers stuck under bridges in Chicago back before most of the bridge clearances were raised to 13.6 or +. Again congrats.

Regards, John.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:42 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Les Beckman wrote:
Built 1942 for the U. S. Army as number 7032
Les Beckman wrote:
(Some reports say that the locomotive served the U. S. Navy rather than the Army so any corrections to the above information would be welcome.)

This wouldn't shock me if both were correct. Plenty of wheeled vehicles that wound up in the Navy in WW2 actually were accepted by the Army and later passed on to Navy or USMC handling. For example, my 1944 Willys Jeep was used by the Navy in WW2, yet it has US Army acceptance markings on the data plates.
So, it could have been a Navy locomotive and could also be listed somewhere as accepted by the Army from the manufacturer, at an Ordnance depot somewhere.

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:09 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
Lee -

That makes sense to me.

Also, according to THE SECOND DIESEL SPOTTERS GUIDE, between 1941 and 1948, Porter built 29 of these standard gauge 65-tonners along with 12 in narrow gauge. I have no idea how many besides ND&W 5332 still exist out there. Any info on other survivors would be appreciated.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:57 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:11 pm
Posts: 354
What about the hopper mentioned in the original post? Is it going to North Judson also?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:55 am
Posts: 28
Location: NW Indiana
Some, if not most of the extra 'jewelry' on the locomotive was acquired by the late Brother Borromeo [Thomas Malley] CSC. He was quite the railfan, in spite of his religious order policy of poverty. Bro. Borromeo was Superintendent of Utilities, including the ND&W, and the 50 year Chief of the Notre Dame Fire Department.
He was a long time director at Hesston, and a frequent visitor to the locomotive cabs. One story I remember was he somehow arranged a cab ride on the NYC, and actually fired the passenger locomotive on a run into Chicago --- probably from nearby Niles, MI.
I'll have to catch up to Kathy E. during our Christmas trains in a couple weekends, see what she remembers. Her father was a coal salesman, with N.D. as one of his customers, and became great friends with Bro. Borromeo.

_________________
John Harbeck
Hesston Steam Museum in Indiana
http://www.hesston.org


Last edited by OLCO107 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
Jack A. Siffert wrote:
What about the hopper mentioned in the original post? Is it going to North Judson also?


Jack -

The coal hopper and the one surviving self-propelled locomotive crane there at Notre Dame were not part of the donation to HVRM. Unfortunately, I do not know of the status of those two pieces of equipment.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame Railroad
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5357
Here's a photo of the unit sitting in the HVRM Shop building taken today 11/23/13.


Les


Attachments:
H.V.R.M. late November 2013 005.JPG
H.V.R.M. late November 2013 005.JPG [ 349.54 KiB | Viewed 5625 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 6-18003, Bing [Bot], ColebrookdaleRailfan, Google [Bot], kbarnett and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: