I have it on reliable authority that the ex-Twin City Rapid Transit Company, NJ Transit Newark Subway PCC cars currently stored in various locations in northern New Jersey have been disposed of as follows. The numbers shown indicates the Newark Subway designation.

7 - Now at the New York Museum of Transportation
13 - Friends of the NJ Transportation Heritage Center (held in a secure, non disclosed location)
15 - Connecticut Trolley Museum
24 - Now at an undisclosed secure location for potential use in San Diego.
25 - Now at Shore Line Trolley Museum.
26 - Now at Baltimore Streetcar Museum.

NJT is keeping car 28 for their own use.
1 - will be held at an undisclosed secure location for the Friends of the NJ Heritage Center.
16 - will be held at an undisclosed secure location for potential use in San Diego.
With the exception of 28, that means all the Newark PCC cars will have gone to new homes.

Besides the PCC cars previously sent to San Francisco, the following cars that operated on the Newark subway line, were disposed as follows.
3 – Minnesota Streetcar Museum
5 – Seashore Trolley Museum
6 – Rockhill Trolley Museum
10 – Destined for San Diego trolley currently at Rockhill Trolley Museum
27 – Shore Line Trolley Museum

Thanks!

You left one out: #4 supposedly went with #16 to the same buyer/middleman/whatever.

The guys involved with getting 26 to the BSM indicated that 24 was possibly going to the Illinois Railway Museum, possibly to go from there to San Diego.

This group of 30 may qualify as the "best preserved" set of PCC cars yet. How about a list of where all 30 have, or are intended to, gone? Are any scrapped?

I hope they make out better than the 25 SHRT Pullmans. 24 of the 25 went to some form of "preservation" and it appears that somewhere between 2 and 4 of them may actually someday be restored. 10 have been scrapped and 11 more are derelict at several locations, awaiting the inevitable.

It's been said that there are two types of rolling stock that are grossly over-collected: cabooses and PCC cars.

Of the 30 Twin Cities PCCs that Public Service Coordinated Transport bought, 2 were damaged and then scrapped in the 1970s when the Public Service Building was torn down above the branch of the Subway they were stored in. 2 others that had been out of service for many years and stored in another part of that branch were scrapped in the 1990s when that branch was put back in service. There may have also been some flood damage. Nos. 3 and 27 were resold to Shaker Heights and then to the trolley museum in the Twin Cities, 37 was sold again to the Branford Electric Rwy. Ass'n. - Shore Line Trolley Museum.
Some of the cars for San Diego may be stored at Railways to Yesterday in central Pennsylvania.

All 30 Newark cars are accounted for. These are the 4 scrapped by PSCT/NJT, 11 sold to MUNI and now in use, and the 15 listed in previous posts.

BTW, I stand by my statement that cabeese and PCC cars have been the most over- collected items in railway preservation. They are hard to give away, let alone sell for more than a token amount.

In some cases, the rationale is that they're common enough that they're easy to get parts for and also "expendable". From a preservation standpoint, there only "needs" to be one, or maybe two, Newark PCCs preserved as Newark PCCs, and even Minneapolis, the original home of this entire fleet, had minimal interest in bringing more back. But if you need a "classic" car that's also "expendable" from your collection's standpoint, have we got a deal for you!.....

The Baltimore Streetcar Museum started with one PCC, the original Baltimore 7407, the last streetcar to run in Baltimore. Then they went and picked up an El Paso/San Diego car that was right behind the Baltimore order, with the intention of converting it into a handicapped-access car that would reduce the wear on the 7407 and other Baltimore cars. Then Friends of the Philly Trolley went and got one and gave it to us because all you have to do is add shims to the wheels to regauge them there (from 5' 2.5" to 5' 4.5")--keeping it essentially original. Another member grabbed the one Philly rebuilt as an overhead wire car, for spares and to get the stuff they left inside. And now this Newark car, which I was joking told "we had to take that to get the track switches we're gonna need!" Meanwhile, a hubbub arose locally when a privately-sourced Philly car, 2647, was scrapped there for the trucks and other parts.

So that's one priceless Baltimore relic, one worthy project, one preserved Philly relic, one utility parts source, and one "don't look at me, I can't explain it".....

As for the "you can't give one away" remark, I should note that there has been some degree of "speculation" going on with PCCs nationwide, with a degree of "hoarding" going on because some folks have seen the Brookville rebuilds and figured "hey, they're going to need more bodies for future historic-trolley systems!" I've heard, anecdotally, of someone who grabbed a thoroughly derelict PCC for next to nothing, then took the trucks and sold them for $10,000 each.

The "conspiracy theory" I've heard of late is that SEPTA brokered off the remaining PCCs, snow sweepers, work cars, etc. in part to eliminate the motivation of folks who would otherwise eagerly campaign for a "historic streetcar operation". My understanding--and someone closer to the reality can correct me--is that the earlier Brookville rebuilds of PCCs for Philly became fraught with technical and financial issues.

But let's face it: Basically every PCC of late that could be saved has been, and there are still active efforts to start up more "heritage" streetcar runs. This, combined with the Ohio liquidation, is the U.S. traction equivalent of Britain's Woodhams scrapyard at Barry for British steam locomotives. This alone will extend the potential of American traction preservation/operation by 100 years if we play it right.

Sharp eye and you are correct. I inadvertently omitted No. 4 (TCRT No. 323) which is on its way to IRM to be a part of their collection.

Thanks!

The Minnesota Streetcar Museum is a small outfit with very limited storage facilities. At the time we obtained Nos. 3 & 27 in 1990 we were still a part of the Minnesota Transportation Museum so No. 27 (TCRT 416) was stored at the Jackson Street Roundhouse. We disposed of the 416 before we separated from MTM.

The overriding mission and philosophy of MSM is to collect/preserve from Minnesota and only what we can reasonably protect and intend to restore. Covered storage is our primary inhibitor to acquiring any additional streetcars. Plus, being all-volunteer why have two PCCs to maintain when one will satisfy our Museum's collection policy and mission.

Thanks!

The folks involved with this "distribution" project that I have been talking to are somewhat confused about the last couple cars. This is the first I've heard of a car going to IRM to stay; the others seemed to think that IRM was "temporary storage" pending further transfer or transportation. Even the one guy who was in an official capacity was unclear about which car was going to IRM and why, and he thought only the 24 was involved.

What I was told by the guys flipping through their note pads was that 4 and 16 were "bought by an individual" and were going to secure storage "somewhere in the Philadelphia area" (they know exactly who and where, but they're not saying for privacy/security reasons); the impression they had was that someone simply grabbed the last two just to save them and keep them in the region. If they're going to San Diego, so be it. While you're there, tell them we have an original San Diego body if they're still interested.....

From the Hicks-Hakner database (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html), San Diego has:

1. #2785 (St. Louis Car Co., Lot #1649, 1947) PTC #2785 to SEPTA (1968) to San Diego (2010)

2. #529 (St. Louis Car Co., Lot #1655, 1946) St. Louis Public Service #1716 to MUNI #1122 (1957) to Tahoe Valley Lines (1994) to San Diego #529 (2005)--operating

3. #530 (St. Louis Car Co., Lot #1655, 1946) St. Louis Public Service #1728 to MUNI #1123 (1957) to Tahoe Valley Lines (1994) to San Diego #530 (2005)

4. #531 (St. Louis Car Co., Lot #1655, 1946) St. Louis Public Service #1777 to MUNI #1170 (1961) to Tahoe Valley Lines (1994) to San Diego #531 (2006)

5. #532 (St. Louis Car Co., Lot #1666, 1948) PTC #2186 to SEPTA (1968) to MOT (1994) to San Diego #532 (2009)

I do not know the identity of the sixth car, which also came from SEPTA.

San Diego Vintage Trolley: http://www.sdvintagetrolley.com/

San Diego Electric Railway 508, at Orange Empire Railway Museum, is the only authentic SDERy car to be restored as such. It is a 1936 product of the St. Louis Car Company. SDERy was the first operator of PCCs on the west coast.



There are a great many PCCs at museums, but I would say they are neither "collected" nor "preserved" when owned and operated by a municipal transit agency. Same as old diesels owned by private companies such as the recently discussed ALCo plant switcher.

Given the success of the F line here, I'm surprised there are not more successful heritage streetcar operations then there are. I actually suspect they have been in decline. San Jose has just about given up, Portland recently sold their cars, and Seattle's have been in storage for a decade.

Car 4 (TCRT #323) has arrived at IRM, and will be part of the permanent collection. We're planning to put it into operation this year.

http://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2014/ ... -hope.html

Thanks to Bill Wall for organizing this!