Somewhat related, one of the videos of steam during the sugar cane harvest in Cuba shows an engine with a piston pump, mounted on the running board, chugging away. Another way to get water into the boiler; I wonder how common that practice was?

It's ironic that this subject is being discussed now, as I just returned from Disney World. While I was there, I took part in their railroad tour. Disney's locomotives have been discussed here already, but there seems to be some disparity among information. The folks at Disney maintain that their locomotives did not have crosshead pumps when purchased from Mexico. Their story states that in the 70's, their foreman presented the idea to add a crosshead pump for efficiency, but was told by the higher-ups, "The trains have run fine without them so far." The story goes on to say that he added a crosshead pump on his own discretion to one of the locomotives. It is said that the higher-ups then asked why that particular locomotive was running so much more efficiently than the other three. This is Disney's explanation of how WDWRR's locomotives got their pumps.

On a side note.... The WDWRR tour is a great experience and I would encourage any of you to take it. You are extended an opportunity to see and experience things that the normal guest will never see. If you do decide to take the tour, please remember that this tour is about Disney's railroad operations, it's history, and Walt Disney's love of and experience with trains. WDWRR is not your typical railroad and they don't do everything they way many of us would expect. WDWRR is an attraction and is considered a ride, not part of their transportation division. Most of their operating crewmembers have no prior railroading experience and only know this operation. Many of them pull double duty elsewhere in the parks doing other things.

This would be an odd result considering that crosshead pumps provide colder water to the boiler than injectors, while stealing more power from the locomotive to do it than injectors use. they also aren't much use to feed water while the locomotive is standing at the station....

dave

As I understand it, the crosshead pumps are part of a pre-heated feedwater system (on Disney's locomotives) that is used when running. The locomotives are still equipped with injectors on both the fireman and engineer sides for feeding water while standing or as otherwise needed.

From the pictures I've seen, none of the Disney locomotives had crosshead pumps when they arrived.

http://progresscityusa.com/wp-content/u ... _WDWRR.jpg

http://progresscityusa.com/wp-content/u ... _WDWRR.jpg

http://albums.mouseplanet.com/WDWMKRail ... ennett.jpg

http://albums.mouseplanet.com/WDWMKRail ... ennett.jpg

http://albums.mouseplanet.com/WDWMKRail ... ennett.jpg

http://albums.mouseplanet.com/WDWMKRail ... ennett.jpg

Though it looks like the Roy O had one prior to Disney purchasing it.


http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=661

Home made feedwater heaters at Disney? Interesting.....does anybody have any details?

dave

Just out of curiosity I did a web search for something like 'steam powered water pumps', and found that Gardner-Denver still makes them in several sizes. Sounds like they may be more reliable than injectors, a pump should always 'pick up', but as mentioned before, the water will not be preheated by missing with steam.

As far as the Disney home made feedwater heating system, it was a common marine practice to use an economizer for feedwater, which was a group of coils between the fire and the uptake to the stack. I wonder if Disney did something like that in the engine's smokebox, adding a coil between the injector/pump and boiler check. I recall reading about a logging engine, maybe in West Virginia, that had something similar in the stack to catch some wasted BTUs. I think they called it a 'porcupine' feedwater heater.

I may be confused in what we're actually talking about, but I don't see the equipment I'm thinking of in the photos of the Disney locomotives as delivered from Mexico. Here are photos that I took last week of the Walter E. Disney in front of the WDWRR roundhouse. They have two of these ten-wheelers that they call "The Twins". Both have similar set-ups. I did not get a good look at Roy O. Disney (4-4-0) and don't recall seeing a similar system. Lillie Belle (2-6-0) is currently off the property for major repairs (frame issues, I believe) making it unavailable to view.

Do we agree these pumps look like modern builds from bar stock?

That would be consistent with the information provided by the fine Disney folks.

The crosshead pumps, like many of the other goodies, may have been removed from the Disney engines prior to shipment, so their not appearing in photos is inconclusive.

I don't believe any of the current cast members were involved with the engines' rebuilding, which was done at a Tampa shipyard, so I would take what they have to say with a grain of salt. The gentleman overseeing the rebuild by Disney, Earl Vilmer, was a former KCS roundhouse foreman before WWII, and a very knowledgeable railroad veteran, having oveseen the construction and operation of the supply rail line through Persia during WWII. He was also the guy who oversaw the buidling of the original Disneyland engines, and the re-building of the two later Baldwins. None of which have crosshead pumps. I doubt he would see fit to use crosshead pumps if the engines didn't already come with them.

The feedwater heater was designed and constructed by the foreman in the Tampa Shipyards, George Britton. After the rebuilds, he was hired by Disney to be their roundhouse foreman in FL, where he worked for several decades before retiring. The feedwater pump can be seen in the second photo by Mount Royal posted above. It is the cylindrical tank immediately behind the crosshead pump and first driver. I don't have mechanical details, other than that steam (possibley exhaust steam) fills the tank, and as the pump is operated, the feedwater flows through the heated tank and is warmed.

The WDW crews do indeed prefer to use the crosshead pumps over the injectors.

One will also note that there are no brakes on the locomotives!

All the Disney engines were delivered with crosshead pumps upon completion.

Here's a photo from my collection. That's Earl Vilmer on the left, George Britton on the right:

Thank you, Steve for your comments and of course, the photo. George Britton was the name of the foreman that the cast member referred to and Earl Vilmer was a name I believe I heard mentioned before by my grandfather, a 38 year veteran of KCS. I can understand how stories evolve over time. Thanks for the clarification!

I believe many of the Crown Metal Works amusement park engines were fitted with crosshead pumps. Somewhere in my files I have a copy of an issue of "Live Steam" magazine detailing the installation of a "feedwater heater" (actually an economizer in boiler terminology) on one of these locomotives. The operator wound a coil of ~2" copper tubing that would just fit inside the smokebox, between the stack and the door as I recall. The feed from the crosshead pump was routed through this coil and then to the boiler check valve.

Apparently this installation resulted in a significant fuel savings. Seems like a fairly simple and fool proof modification.