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 Post subject: SF Muni wire configuration and maintenance
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:58 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Just curious, does San Francisco MUNI still maintain their wire for pole operation throughout? I imagine at some point they will have to stop doing this, or justify the expense.

Prompted by news item of their latest modern LRV fleet.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/11/17-siemens-san-francisco

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Steven Harrod
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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: SF Muni wire configuration and maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:56 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Does Muni maintain the overheads wire, or is it the responsibility of the municipal power company, who sells electricity at the top of the trolley pole or pan?


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 Post subject: Re: SF Muni wire configuration and maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 523
San Francisco generates a lot of hydroelectric power through the Hetch Hetchy Project, which transmits it to the city for municipal facilities including Muni.

I'm pretty sure that Muni gets the high-voltage AC at their substations and handles the distribution of the DC power through the trolley system itself. That would include overhead and underground DC feeders as needed.

The Western Railway Museum owns Muni 0305, which is a Marmon Transmotive diesel-powered car designed and built to service the trolley system in the subway under Market Street. It is still painted in its Muni paint job, and is very useful as our shop switcher.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Muni wire configuration and maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:29 pm
Posts: 88
Location: San Francisco, CA.
Good Morning,

I cannot see what the "trains" article has to say, so it is difficult to answer this question directly.
However I can say, years back there was talk of putting pantographs on the older cars, but then realized mixedwith the running wire on Market Street with all the trolley buses would be a huge undertaking. The metro main lines are all pole compatible (except the N line), Twin Peaks Tunnel and the Subway to the east portal along the Embarcadero.

Cheers,
Karl J.


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 Post subject: Re: SF Muni wire configuration and maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 81
softwerkslex wrote:
Just curious, does San Francisco MUNI still maintain their wire for pole operation throughout? I imagine at some point they will have to stop doing this, or justify the expense.

Prompted by news item of their latest modern LRV fleet.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/11/17-siemens-san-francisco


Toronto is well along in a program to equip the system for pan operation. All contact wire is being changed to 4/0 grooved and for the time being, will accommodate pans and poles. The primary reason for doing this is the current draw of the new 92' long, low floor cars which when run on a high rate would push the limit of the current carrying capacity of a J-6 shoe carbon. The J-6 shoes on all cars were changed a few years ago to a design which matched to old harp but provided a wider carbon with a reduced concave radius providing more contact area.

My understanding at this point is that the whole system will be pans in a few years. All low floor cars have pans and poles but are using poles most of time.


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