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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Roanoke VA
TimReynolds wrote:
Oh meant to ask earlier. When in Google Satellite view, I noticed a former round house at Elmwood Park along the line parallel to 220. What RR did that belong to?


Tim, While from satellite view this structure does resemble a railroad structure namely a Roundhouse it is not it is part of the Roanoke City Library and is of modern construction. If you knew where this structure was elevation wise to the rest of the railroad infrastructure nearby you would know that the elevation change alone would eliminate tis as being a railroad support structure and never has been.

J3a-614 wrote:
Some tickled brain cells here--is the the belt line originally on the city line of Roanoke that was built by the Virginian Railway?


J3a-614, This line was not part of the Virginian, it was part of the N&W. In the early days Late 1800's the Roanoke & Southern (R-Line) was established between Winston Salem and Roanoke VA this line was quickly absorbed by the N&W and became the Winston Salem line of the N&W. Early on though there was a large Roanoke & Southern Freight Station near and east of the new Art Museum in Downtown Roanoke. At some point the N&W had constructed a "Belt Line" from it's material yard west of Roanoke along the Roanoke river to connect on the south side of Roanoke with the R-line that ran south to Winston Salem. Later on in the game in the early 1900's the Virginian Came along and crossed the Belt line at grade over a diamond at what is now R3.65, this diamond has long been removed and a train can not move from the Belt line and downtown to the material yard over the V-Line, this end of the Belt Line is worked off the V-Line. On the East end of the Belt line at R7.0 this is a gray area as far as line names are concerned as the R-line from Winston Salem changes to the W-Line at the switch leading to the Belt Line. Originally the R-line ran all the way into Roanoke at Randolph St Tower but the Line ID's Changed to the best of my knowledge at some point to reflect the Belt Line being the Northern portion of the R-line into Roanoke and The portion of the line that runs from Franklin Road on into Roanoke is now the W-Line. I'll see about producing a map that shows what the lines used to look like when there was a Wye at Franklin Road and the Diamond was in over the Virginian. But for now I have probably provided enough to confuse everyone...

Thanks

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Roanoke / Salem VA


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
It would take a little while restoring an engine, I don't know what at VMT is actually operable aside from 611, do they have a working switcher to shuttle equipment around? Getting the passenger cars ready surely quicker, you could invite the Leviathon over for some run it now power. A 4-8-0 makes sense since ..ahem..err...they have one now, I would love to see one of these 4-8-0's restored, I think its possible. I think the one at the NRHS is the better condition but any of the engines saved is possible. But this line probably opens the door for VMT any kinds of things can happen, just look at IRM.

as far as operating over non-crossing signaled crossings, on the Little River we had a flagman walk each crossing at a slow pace or you stop at each crossing, you don't charge your way over the crossing, I think I did some flagging and I was happy to do that, part of the operating fun.


cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:55 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 205
dinwitty wrote:
It would take a little while restoring an engine, I don't know what at VMT is actually operable aside from 611, do they have a working switcher to shuttle equipment around? Getting the passenger cars ready surely quicker, you could invite the Leviathon over for some run it now power. A 4-8-0 makes sense since ..ahem..err...they have one now, I would love to see one of these 4-8-0's restored, I think its possible. I think the one at the NRHS is the better condition but any of the engines saved is possible. But this line probably opens the door for VMT any kinds of things can happen, just look at IRM.

as far as operating over non-crossing signaled crossings, on the Little River we had a flagman walk each crossing at a slow pace or you stop at each crossing, you don't charge your way over the crossing, I think I did some flagging and I was happy to do that, part of the operating fun.


cheers.




They actually do have a 4-8-0, one of the lost engines of Roanoke No. 1151, but due to it's condition, it is very unlikely it will ever operate again. Perhaps that Virginian 0-8-0, and a few diesels?


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:10 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 262
Mr.Pullman wrote:
As mentioned before the line needs to be cleared, and the various crossings will also be addressed with the appropriate parties involved. Yes Land has already been secured to support operations and three additional Heavy Weight Cars have been purchased to contribute as well. As for motive power that is still being addressed. But in the short term rebuilding the line would be priority one.


I believe these are ex-NW: http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds ... p?id=12967

CD


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:48 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3614
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Just a recap on the smaller steam power at VTM:

http://www.vmt.org/Loops-Collections/St ... -1151.html

http://www.vmt.org/Loops-Collections/St ... ive-6.html

http://www.vmt.org/Loops-Collections/St ... ive-4.html

They all look like they need a little bit of work. . .


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:58 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 205
Out of all of the engines listed above, Virginian #4 appears to be in the most reasonable condition, however, that is just a front pic. The 2-8-0 needs work, but it could happen. The 1309 looked worse than that in my opinion. However, 1151 will likely never operate again.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:02 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 205
Here is a recent picture of #4. Actually looks pretty good, however I don't know it's actual interior condition.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcomike/13960625252


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:31 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 287
Yeah in this hobby I hate to think never but the poor Lost Engines of Roanoke are extremely far from being cosmetic restorations. No tender, most appliances appear gone, no rods, no stack...
But if a T-1 can be built from scratch, a lowly twelve wheeler that has its major cast parts could live again, and be added to the list of revived basket cases. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37704&hilit=basket+cases


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:38 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:33 am
Posts: 95
Location: Wash D.C.
Thus far, there has been much speculation on this thread about which Virginia Museum of Transportation's (VMT) locomotive should be restored to operate on this line. My question would be is the museum looking to operate steam or diesel excursions? Or both? I have a two suggestions that I have outlined below, which promote the utilization of partnerships. This is key because aside from cosmetic appearances, none of the museum's locomotives, including the 1218, are in any position to become operable any time soon or at least without significant work. This includes Virginian #4, N&W #6, and Most Certainly N&W 1151.

If the answer is diesel, then I would propose a strong partnership with the Roanoke Chapter NRHS, as they currently own three diesel locomotives in operating (or very close to operating) condition. These locomotives include N&W ALCO T6 #41, N&W GP30 #522 and NKP Road GP9 #532. A further benefit of this would be that these two organizations already have a strong partnership together and the Chapter's Yard is conveniently located but a few miles away just on the other side of Roanoke.

If the answer is steam, then I would propose a renewed partnership with the Old Dominion Chapter, NRHS in Richmond, VA. This organization currently owns and very, very seldom operates the only Steam Locomotive in Virginia in operable condition other than the N&W 611. This is the Albermarle Paper Company's 0-6-0 plant switcher from Richmond, VA. Although it did serve in the U.S. Army beforehand, I still consider it to be a VIRGINIA NATIVE which fits the Virginia Museum of Transportation's mission statement of showcasing pieces local to the state of Virginia. I happen to know that the ODC NRHS is looking to get more run time out of their steam locomotive before its 1472 (I don't actually know when this is specifically), and it appears to me as though it is the perfect size for the 2.4 mile long line. Another benefit is that although it is located on the other side of the state, the Old Dominion chapter's yard interchanges with Norfolk Southern trackage just outside of Richmond in Hallsboro, VA. Steam wise, I feel as though this would be an Ideal partnership and mutually beneficial for both of said organizations.

More information here as well as a good picture:
http://www.odcnrhs.org/equipment_roster ... rd_017.htm

Please read/interpret/take as you will.

All the best,
-Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2550
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Oh, no question. This one http://www.vmt.org/Loops-Collections/El ... C-135.html
Since the PCC is single-ended.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:28 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 287
Dug out my copy of "The Virginian Railway" - H. Reid (C) 1961. The Virginian is a story in itself to say the least. I now lean to the idea of SA 0-8-0 No. 4 the only steam survivor of the Virginian.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:09 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 205
TimReynolds wrote:
Dug out my copy of "The Virginian Railway" - H. Reid (C) 1961. The Virginian is a story in itself to say the least. I now lean to the idea of SA 0-8-0 No. 4 the only steam survivor of the Virginian.


I'm going a little off topic here, but there were more engines slated for preservation, including a pacific, a Berkshire, a 2-8-8-2, and an Allegheny off the top of my head. These were scrapped when the N&W took over. Anyways, back to the belt line.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:53 am 

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 pm
Posts: 217
I see the Belt Line has some 12 and 14 degree curves . Does anyone actually know what minimum degree curvature 611 is built to take ? No guessing please.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5707
Location: southeastern USA
Using 611 as a slow goat for demonstration runs on the Belt Line is like using a warhead for swatting a fly. Since there's a variety of possibilities out there, including making use of a possible strategic partnership that would benefit two groups which share a regional common ground, I'm hopefully certain that any such choice would be made with the proposed suitability for purpose in mind - VMT aren't rank amateurs after all. Assuming they decide having an operating train on this line suits their mission and other goals, I wish them the best in making it happen in the way that will work best for them and all concerned.

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1897
Belt Line looks well suited to small diesel supplemented by visits by the Gramlings.
Congrats to VMT and NS on this opportunity.
My two cents.

Wesley


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