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 Post subject: Hiring a web designer to make your website
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:51 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
Question for discussion: Does paying a professional web designer to create your website pay for itself?

Not trying to kiss up to anyone here, but I think my favorite rail museum website is Western Railway Museum's. For functionality and attractiveness, I just really like it.

I scrolled to the bottom to see who created it, and found the name of a Bay Area firm. I then did a search on that firm and some rave reviews on Yelp turned up. One reviewer said this: "Dave likes to say that his websites should pay for themselves and I would agree."

I thought about that comment and then thought about WRM's website. Yes, I suspect that it does pay for itself.

It may not make sense for a small museum to have a pro-done website. But for a large place like WRM, I bet there is positive return on that investment.

Just my feeble-minded thoughts this evening.


Last edited by rock island lines on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:09 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It certainly makes a difference if you have something to sell and want strong search engine presence. The designers knowledge of site structure and search engine processes is more important than their cosmetic skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:41 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 925
There's no downside to something that looks professional or is well designed.

But even more valuable are:

1) fresh content and current information updated on a bi-weekly or monthly basis
2) the ability for your organization to edit said content whenever they need to
3) a digital "strategy" that sees consistent messaging and content across multiple platforms between web and social

Too many organizations get a website locked into a particular theme or back-end and need to pay someone else to update it or they just post on social media while their website grows cobwebs.

If an organization can recruit a developer into their ranks to create something that is user friendly on the front and back end, all the better, as firms can charge upwards of $15-20k or more. When that type of investment is made, there is usually a hindrance to updating or revamping as trends change or special events come up because someone will say "we just spent $15k on the website five years ago!" with the expectation that a website is like a building that was just built - and it is - but you have to keep up the lawn care, painting, decor, window dressing, etc.

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Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Inc
http://www.fwrhs.org


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
A major relevant question:

Are you simply providing information, or are you SELLING a product/service/experience?

If you're that little local historical society with a depot museum and a caboose, it's not worth it. If you're the Strasburg, Grand Canyon, Durango & Silverton, etc., not only can you not afford NOT to, you should have someone on staff whose paid responsibilities include updating the website regularly.

The folks in between? A museum that runs an annual trip on the main line one weekend a year? It's a decision. A Facebook account alone ain't gonna cut it.

Truly pro web developers understand web design and development like we understand railroading. They cringe at particularly bad websites just like we'd cringe at the sight of a 2-8-2T hauling a bilevel commuter car, a Pullman troop sleeper as an open car, a heavyweight Pullman still in camp car mode, and a bay-window caboose passing itself off as a "true railroad experience." They understand such things as search engine optimization (so Google, etc. can find you), even as far as hiding keywords in the background.

Sure, you might get some well-meaning volunteer to donate a website--but that may or may not be worth what you pay for it. Do they really know what you need?

The story I have repeatedly told is that of an excursion line that had a member who was a retired schoolteacher, of advanced age, who could barely get about. But she was lucid and knew how school administrations worked. She assumed a self-appointed duty of marketing the line and its affiliated other attractions, by mail and phone, to regional schools for field trips. The year I was told about her, the railroad calculated she alone was personally responsible for about 22% of the line's revenue that year--simply because she knew how to sell to schools, because she was "one of them" and not a marketing person or railfan.

Get the "right" person for the job. Just like us fixing locomotives and cars, it doesn't have to cost a fortune, some of it you can teach yourself to do, but "knowing what you don't know" is critical, whether it be for boiler codes, FRA specs, or graphic design.


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1116
Location: B'more Maryland
As one of those web professionals... I have to say that in the past five years, some really exciting things have happened in the world of what I'd call the "Small business web".

These things have been the development of Squarespace and Wix.
https://www.squarespace.com/
http://www.wix.com/

These are, essentially, "WYSIWYG" site builders, but they've really addressed a lot of the things that organizations and companies need when it comes to basic, attractive, functional websites. There have been products like this available over the years, but these folks have finally gotten it right.

So right, in fact, that I've switched the Conrail Historical Society's site over from a Drupal based solution, that served us admirably for years (and still does for our Online Photo Gallery: http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/), to it. You can see it at http://www.thecrhs.org/.

It's still handy to have a consultant to help you go through the process of setting up your site, but it means that those folks can now focus on what the web is really about, conveying messages and getting content out, and not messing around with technology.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2882
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
As one of those web professionals... I have to say that in the past five years, some really exciting things have happened in the world of what I'd call the "Small business web".

These things have been the development of Squarespace and Wix.
https://www.squarespace.com/
http://www.wix.com/


I'll second that, especially for WIX. I am aware of an organization that used WIX for their website, along with a third party ticketing company, and it worked really well.

Most of the work was done in house, with a graphics designer creating some of the elements so that it had a professional look to it.

Here's what really worked though. They built an audience on Facebook, using promotions, blog posts, photos and the like. Just routine updates and comments all year long. Some of it was paid promotion stuff, but a lot of it was "organic", i.e. not paid promo on Facebook. Then, when they did have a big event, they'd do a paid promo, and a decent portion of the large number of fans they have would see it.

The important thing is consistency and putting out good content.


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:09 am
Posts: 33
Location: Southeastern PA
As another “professional” web designer, here’s my $.02…

Overall, I think most people will give a volunteer organization a little slack when it comes to how sophisticated their website is.

It’s not always what they notice, but the “lack” of, meaning your poorly designed website will stick out like a sore thumb.

Even if you don’t have a large marketing budget for a website, there are a number of cost-effective options like the aforementioned Wix and Square Space.

And unless you are doing something more sophisticated like Fort Wayne’s website with ticketing/reservations, e-commerce, etc. (very nice BTW), you can pretty much get away with just an online brochure.

You just need to find a dedicated volunteer who can make sure the site is updated on regular basis (fresh photos/content), present the (spell-checked/well-written) information in a clear/readable format and have your contact/hours of operation info front/center.

In regards to SEO, there is a ton of online reference (moz.com, Kiss Metrics, etc.) that will give you enough of the basics so that your site can be found/seen.

It’s also important to take care of your local SEO as well (and claim your organization’s name), for example: Yelp, Four Square, Google My Business, your local Chamber of Commerce, etc.

Kelly’s word’s ring absolutely true...a website is a living entity that absolutely needs to be maintained for best results...


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4644
Location: Maine
Any organizations website is its face before the entire world. If you don't go professional, go with somebody who has been trained and has the skills to put your best face on.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2499
OK, another professional opinion (though not a designer, but a strategist). The answer to your question is "yes" provided (as Sandy alluded to) you are trying to market the museum and make money.

I, too, like the WRM site. It's pretty, for sure, but more than that it shows an understanding of marketing. It sells WRM. It's a great example.

There are loads of tools that let you do things for free or on the cheap. Our new store on http://www.project3713.com is running on the free version of WooCommerce. Is it the hottest store on the Internet? No, but it doesn't mean to be.

What you need is a volunteer or hired gun who understands the options out there, and can use them to your group's advantage.

Like Richard said, your website is THE FIRST PLACE people go to look for you (riders, donors, grant administrators, etc..). Facebook, Insta, Snap, Twitter and YouTube can help you when smartly used, but nothing beats your website for marketing and revenue value.

Rob

PS: And I should add... make sure the site is FULLY FUNCTIONAL on common mobile platforms.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
No matter if your site is done professionally or by a member volunteer, make sure that more than the one person knows the access password, etc.

I have a "shoe-string" relative who is a principal in an engineering firm serving several nearby small cities with municipal type of engineering services. I see him about once a year. The other year when I saw him he had a tale of woe:

The firm needed an update to its website. They could not contact the designer -- he seemed to have disappeared. No one in the office had the log-in name and password. So the website sat static and they were having to completely replace the website.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2882
One more comment, I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I run a tourist railway directory, and you would be amazed at how often I find websites for the West Wimberly and Northern that give absolutely no indication where the railroad is located. And, no, "Just 5 miles west of town" doesn't count. (Yes, I've seen that...)

Once you have your website built, do two things.

1) Find somebody who's never heard of the place. Have them look at the website, and tell you this info: Where is the railroad? (must include state). When are you open? How long is the train ride? (If applicable).

2) Find somebody's grandma. Tie your webmaster to a chair, gag him so he can't say a word, and then tell Granny to book tickets on Thomas or Polar Express or whatever big event she's likely to want to attend. You can give her the URL. That's it... No other help. She must be able to find the event, pick a date, buy tickets and go through the entire checkout process without anyone saying a word to help. Seriously, put her in a room alone with a webcam or something and watch what happens. You may be shocked, as what's obvious to you may not be obvious to the general public.


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:24 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Bobharbison wrote:
Once you have your website built, do two things.

1) Find somebody who's never heard of the place. Have them look at the website, and tell you this info: Where is the railroad? (must include state). When are you open? How long is the train ride? (If applicable).

2) Find somebody's grandma. Tie your webmaster to a chair, gag him so he can't say a word, and then tell Granny to book tickets on Thomas or Polar Express or whatever big event she's likely to want to attend. You can give her the URL. That's it... No other help. She must be able to find the event, pick a date, buy tickets and go through the entire checkout process without anyone saying a word to help. Seriously, put her in a room alone with a webcam or something and watch what happens. You may be shocked, as what's obvious to you may not be obvious to the general public.

Much as you may not believe it, some companies even pay people to do just this--they literally solicit people (sometimes through professional companies that do marketing research) to come in and do exactly this kind of thing. "Find out how much a policy for your car costs with this company." "You want to see what vacation options this place offers for under $2,000." "Book a motel room for a person in a scooter for the west side of Birmingham, Michigan for April 28th for two adults and two kids." You'll be on a computer that tracks every cursor move and keystroke you make, and maybe even tracking your eye movements as well.

The companies that invest in such testing on behalf of their clients are the ones that come up with good-looking, attractive websites that sell goods/services. The ones that don't, well, I suspect they landed the contracts for "Obamacare" health exchange websites or something.....


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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:52 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2499
Bobharbison wrote:

Once you have your website built, do two things.




I have a third one that's especially valuable for sites that target middle-age or older males: do a color blindness check. There are automated ways to do this, which helps as there are multiple types of colorblindess to check against.

How did I learn this? Back in Netscape beta days (that's like the land before time), I built a page and asked a friend to take a look at some text on it. His reply was "what text?" It was then I learned to be careful with low-contrast colors. ;-)

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:26 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
robertjohndavis wrote:
How did I learn this? Back in Netscape beta days (that's like the land before time), I built a page and asked a friend to take a look at some text on it. His reply was "what text?" It was then I learned to be careful with low-contrast colors. ;-)
Yes, one complaint that I have had is the web pages that put black text on a dark blue background -- not enough contrast to easily read the text.

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 Post subject: Re: Does a professionally-made website pay for itself?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:53 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1792
Location: New Franklin, OH
I would certainly say yes. Though we're not currently offering any excursions or big ticket items, our website is our face to the world. All our marketing points you to the website for more information.

Since our website isn't currently mobile-friendly, and we don't want to pay another company an additional monthly fee to use their builder and/or hosting, I'm playing around with a free drag & drop builder called Mobirise. Reason being if I get "hit by a train", someone else can step in and do the updates without paying an hourly rate or facing a vertical learning curve. It's relatively limited out of the box but you can do more in-depth editing if you purchase their HTML editor and other modules. Question is, has anyone here tried this app and if so, what did you think of it?

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